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Pat Burns and Andy Attar Seminar This Past Weekend

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Mike Boufford

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I attended a Pat Burns and Andy Attar seminar this past weekend (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) at Omega Farms in Williamston Michigan. What an eye opening experience this has been for me, and I certainly hope that Jim Trotter is able to convince Pat and Andy to return to Michigan next year for another seminar.

The knowledge which these gentlemen have is just incredible, and we only touched the surface of their knowledge. I learned so much just sitting back watching others run their dogs. Yeah I could have run Tess because she can do much of the work they set up, but that wasn't the point of attending. While let's say Pat was down giving one on one instruction to the handler (they alternated as to who was on the line), Andy was giving the gallery a play by play of what's happening at the line. After the run, Pat would come up and discuss what went on at the line and why he instructed the way that he did, and also discuss the thought process that the handler had at the line.
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
Don Smith said:
Wish I could have gone. I did a whirlwind business trip to Seattle, leaving Tuesday afternoon, taking the red-eye back Wednesday night and getting home at noon Thursday. I thiink the drive to Michigan after being awake for 36 hours would have killed me.

5 Hour Energy regards,
Click to expand...
Yeah I vaguely recall what happened the last time you attempted to drive while tired.... You were better off staying home and getting some sleep.
 
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#4 ·
That sounds like a blast Mike! I would have so loved to be there........prior commitments you know:( Any pics from the weekend? How many people were there?

And Jim, how much do we have to pay you to bring them both back again???:D

Abby
 
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#5 ·
And then there's that little issue of a speeding ticket the last time Don came to Michigan....:D
 
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#6 ·
A great weekend with two great dog guys. These two guys have had their hands on a lot of the legendary dogs in the sport. They have gained a huge amount of knowledge and really know how to share it. Very good teaching on the fly. They took every chance given them to teach what just happened rather than try too hard to show you what they planned to teach. If you havent been to one of these you need to.
 
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#7 ·
Dan Wegner said:
And then there's that little issue of a speeding ticket the last time Don came to Michigan....:D
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Good grief, Dan! That's only 3 speeding tickets in 45 years. I think that's pretty good (I'm not counting the time I talked the officer out of a ticket when I was going 55 in a 25. LOL). Two have been in Michigan. What's that tell you? He said he had me going 75 in a 55 (oops, can you say "reckless op?") I don't know if I was going that fast or not, but just like the other time I got a ticket in Michigan, I was going the same speed as everyone else. He only cited me for 60 in a 55. Probably wasn't sure what to do with the dogs if he hauled me in. I was 5 miles from the Wolveriine FT site, daggone it. So, I get the "You're out of state, so, I can keep your license as bond or you can post $100 bond." What to do? Well, I don't have $100 cash on me. I asked how I'm supposed to drive if he keeps my license and he said that I can't. I held my tongue instead of asking if he expected me to sit there the rest of my life if I surrendered my license. Instead, being very polite to him, he said there was an ATM a few miles up the road and he'd follow me. The whole way, I'm praying that this ATM accepts my card. It did. He then says to call the clerk of courts on Monday to see how much more it is. Well, guess what? It was $5 less. I've already gotten the refund. Michigan does not report violations to Ohio, so I'm good on that score and since I decided to drive up on Saturday morning, rather than the night before, I figure I just paid the cost of the motel. LOL

Being careful every since regards,
 
Discussion starter · #8 · (Edited)
TIM DOANE said:
A great weekend with two great dog guys. These two guys have had their hands on a lot of the legendary dogs in the sport. They have gained a huge amount of knowledge and really know how to share it. Very good teaching on the fly. They took every chance given them to teach what just happened rather than try too hard to show you what they planned to teach. If you havent been to one of these you need to.
Click to expand...
Both you and Dan did some nice work over the weekend. It was fun to watch the goings on while you two were at the line.

Dan Wegner said:
And then there's that little issue of a speeding ticket the last time Don came to Michigan....:D
Click to expand...
Old Don keeps forgetting the reputation that the Ohio HIPO has up here. If you have a Michigan tag, you are going to get a ticket at some point. I think they are still a little steamed over losing the Battle for Toledo. LOL

By the way, after watching a few Flatcoats at the hunt test level, it was really nice watching your dog run so very well. Stellar work which reminded me of a Flatcoat I saw run a few years ago. I believe he was from Pennsylvania?!?!? and had his HRCH and Master.
 
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#10 ·
Yep that was a great seminar. I went not knowing really knowing what to expect. It was a fantastic learning experience and a couple of top notch guys. They went out of their way to answer every question they could. They explained the reason behind some of the things they were doing and not just do the next step because that's what you do.

I had some light bulbs that came on over the weekend that made this worth every penny. I'm still trying to remember some of the items so I can make more notes. I was really trying to absorb as much as I could without getting caught up in taking notes. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
 
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#11 ·
I also attended the seminar this past weekend as a handler. Mike you are correct, the knowledge that Pat and Andy shared was fantastic. To actually have one of the standing
behind you at every move telling you and showing what is expected is invaluable. I believe i learned more in the 3 days than the last several years. There is just NO SUBSTITUE for that kind of training.

I would go again next weekend to the same seminar in a hearbeat. I would probably go as an observer this time because there was so much discussion going on (sometimes 2 & 3 different discussions) among the group on different issues in each dog was having and missed some when putting dog up or on other side of the group.

I sure hope as well that Jim Trotter can get them to come back again next year. I know the size of the group was a small issue but i like the smaller format where they don't need to wear a mic and the one on one format. I would even be willing to pay more for the same size group or slightly larger. Andy mentioned at one seminar there were 170 people and
after being with smaller group would much rathar pay for quality then quantity.

Again want to thank Andy and Pat for taking the time out to come and share thier knowledge with us and hope to see them again soon.
People if you have a chance to see them together don't miss out, they have been best buds since childhood and can just about end each other sentances. This comes in handy
when one is helpling the handler and the other is discussing what is going on like
Mike stated in his post
 
#13 ·
Mike Boufford said:
.Old Don keeps forgetting the reputation that the Ohio HIPO has up here. If you have a Michigan tag, you are going to get a ticket at some point. I think they are still a little steamed over losing the Battle for Toledo. LOL
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Old Don? What the heck does that mean, you young whippersnapper? And, I believe that history records that Ohio WON the Toledo War. Ohio got the strip of land from Lake Erie to Indiana, including Toledo (granted, Toledo is not now what it once was). You, on the other hand, got the Upper Peninsula. I believe that the result of that transaction was that the collective IQ of Michigan went down and that of Wisconsin went up. LOL Both of us lost when Ohio Governor Lucas ordered draining of much of the Great Black Swamp to facilitate movement of the Ohio militia to Michigan.
 
#14 ·
Agree with all the comments above. Pat and Andy did a wonderful job leading us through some great set ups. Appreciated the opportunity to sit in and absorb! Also was nice to meet some really great people and watch some wonderful dogs work! Hoping to have mine a little further along to participate as a handler next year.
 
Discussion starter · #15 · (Edited)
Don Smith said:
Old Don? What the heck does that mean, you young whippersnapper? And, I believe that history records that Ohio WON the Toledo War. Ohio got the strip of land from Lake Erie to Indiana, including Toledo (granted, Toledo is not now what it once was). You, on the other hand, got the Upper Peninsula. I believe that the result of that transaction was that the collective IQ of Michigan went down and that of Wisconsin went up. LOL Both of us lost when Ohio Governor Lucas ordered draining of much of the Great Black Swamp to facilitate movement of the Ohio militia to Michigan.
Click to expand...
Ha! Yeah right the Buckeyes won that one. We got pristine wilderness and you boys got the armpit of America.

I agree that we both lost when that swamp was drained just like we all lost when the Grand Kankakee marsh was drained and the river was rerouted.
 
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#16 ·
What a great learning experience this weekend. Pat & Andy have momentum!
Sometimes you fall into a little luck. To have a seminar with two heavy hitters teaching straight up sound lessons, in such a small group, was perfect.
I met some great folks as well.
Thanks to Jim & Mary for putting this on.
It was first rate.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
I'm going to put the bug in Jim's ear to have them back again, which won't take a whole lot of convincing. Next time, it's going to have to be advertised a little heavier. We had 21 total show up by my count, and I would guess that 50-60 would be more appropriate.
 
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#18 ·
I was the first one to sign up as a handler when Jim announced he was putting this together. It was worth every penny! The knowledge and experience in training and reading dogs that both Pat & Andy brought to the table was invaluable.

It was organized as an advanced retreiver training seminar, but when it became evident that not all the dogs were advanced, they were able to roll with it. They divided the dogs into "A" and "B" groups so they could demonstrate set-ups and drills appropriate to the dgs they had. We still got the advanced material, but also got some very good information on building the dogs that weren't quite there yet.

Pat & Andy clearly took their time evaluating the dogs and handlers, setting up appropriate challenges and communicating the material they wanted to cover. The thing I really liked was that they took the opportunity to address what was really happening every time a dog ran, even if it had nothing to do with what the intent of the set-up was. If the lesson was checking down on a short retired after running long and the dog all of a sudden had a bugging issue or popping, they dealt with it to get the most out of it for the dog and handler. Isn't that how training usually goes for most of us? Expect the unexpected.

Andy made the perfect "play-by-play" guy and "color commentator" rolled into one. He had some fantastic insight into what was actually happening and never once hesitated to share it with the gallery. He even let Pat talk once in awhile :D You just can't buy that kind of thing!

In addition to running one of my younger dogs, it was a pleasure to watch the other great dog/handler teams work. I learned something new from each team that came to the line, whether they were more advanced or less. There was so much information to take in. Truly a great opportunity for all that attended.

If Jim can convince them to come back again, I'll be first in line again!
 
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Discussion starter · #19 ·
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#20 ·
Mike Boufford said:
Wanna bet? You will be second.
Click to expand...
Not if I beat you! Granted, the second time I think I'll go as an observer to get a few better notes, but what I got running my dog was invaluable.

Hey Matt R, are you the one who brought those great pepper brats? Man those were good and thanks for sharing!

Steeliedit, what's your name? I'm Joe Dickerson me and my dog JD were team 7.

Unfortunately I didn't really get to see team 6 or 8 run because I was either gettting my dog or putting him up.

I have to admit being a hunt tester and then walking up to the line and having a 350 yard blind was intimidating.:shock::barf: I know I moved up and then moved up more, but I still learned a lot on the line. Funny, but after that, the roughly 200 yard blinds on Sun didn't seem as intimidating. Go figure, reaffirms my belief that almost everything in life is relative. They may not have been perfect, but me and JD picked up all three birds.:D

It was nice being around a bunch of dog people for the weekend and not have a ton of stress due to a test. Good people and a good time!
 
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Mike Boufford
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