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What does "Pop" Mean?

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#21 ·
I also vote it was a handle to the mark once the handler said "Back". Without this, I would not consider this dog looking back a "pop". The handler made the determination it was a handle when they decided to handle the dog.
 
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#22 ·
rabersin said:
I also vote it was a handle to the mark once the handler said "Back". Without this, I would not consider this dog looking back a "pop". The handler made the determination it was a handle when they decided to handle the dog.
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I disagree. The handler told us it's a pop as he handled but never blew a whistle to handle.

There are pops and POPS, this one is pretty minor.
 
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#23 ·
Howard N said:
I disagree. The handler told us it's a pop as he handled but never blew a whistle to handle.

There are pops and POPS, this one is pretty minor.
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There is no requirement to blow a whistle to handle. The command "back" is a cast. Now I would agree if the dog left the line and was confused and the handler re-called the dog's name or some simple gesture to get the dog moving. This example was well into the retrieve when the dog started to feel pressure from the difficult conditions. I still do not think it was a pop, but I believe the handler, handled his dog with his voice command and raising his hand to tell the dog "back" and should be scored accordingly.
 
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#24 ·
The rules effectively categorize looking back at the handler without stopping as a pop and penalize the dog for lack of perseverance:
(3) the dog “pops-up’’ or looks back to
his handler for directions on a “marked fall’’ and before
he has hunted for a considerable time;

​
With respect to popping, the rules state:
Stopping voluntarily, to look back for directions,
in an isolated instance, may be considered a
minor fault, but frequent repetition may convert such
“popping-up’’ into the category of serious faults.
​
I had thought that there was consideration of a rule revision that addressed handlers yelling "back" while a dog was proceeding toward a mark, but could not find it. Does that ring a bell for anyone else? I would tend to consider a yelled "back" with hand rasied as a handle whether or not the dog was stopped.
 
#25 ·
YardleyLabs said:
I had thought that there was consideration of a rule revision that addressed handlers yelling "back" while a dog was proceeding toward a mark, but could not find it. Does that ring a bell for anyone else? I would tend to consider a yelled "back" with hand rasied as a handle whether or not the dog was stopped.
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I think that was a proposed rule change from the Field Trial Committee which did not make to the AKC board.
 
#27 ·
john fallon said:
Years ago dogs that didn't say in the rules that dogs that looked to the handler for direction(Popped) were of great value ?
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I dunno, I'd ask Milner or Stewart. :p
 
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#29 ·
About a Mark, it still says that; "Accurate marking is of great importance. A dog that marks the fall of the bird, uses the wind, follows a strong cripple and will take direction fron its handler is of great value."

john
 
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#31 ·
Ken Bora said:
Possible,
But then whistles were invented
and the dogs were told when to look.:rolleyes:


.
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Really ???


History;
Whistles made of bone or wood have been used for thousands of years for spiritual, practical, and entertainment purposes. One of the most distinctive whistles is the boatswain's pipe used aboard naval vessels to issue commands and salute dignitaries. It has evolved from pipes used in ancient Greece and Rome to keep the stroke of galley slaves. A medieval version was used during the Crusades to assemble English crossbow men on deck for an attack. The model currently being produced by the Acme Whistle Company of Birmingham, England, was first manufactured in 1868 by the company's founder, Joseph Hudson.

The modern era of whistle use began in 1878 when a whistle was first blown by a referee during a sporting event. Hudson, a toolmaker who was fascinated with whistles, fashioned a brass instrument that was used in a match at the Nottingham Forest Soccer Club. This device was found to be superior to the usual referee's signal of waving a handkerchief.

In 1883, the London police force made it known that it was seeking an alternative noisemaker to replace the heavy, cumbersome hand rattle the officers had been using. Hudson invented a light, compact whistle that produced two discordant tones that could be heard for more than a mile. It was immediately adopted and the same design is still in use today.

The following year, Hudson invented the "pea whistle." Movement of a small ball enclosed in the whistle's air chamber produces the familiar trilling effect now commonly associated with American police and referee whistles. The pea whistle remains the world's largest-selling type.

john
 
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#32 ·
Ken , I would regard the vocal back as a cast. The proposed rule change as I remember addressed this as training due to its use ( a vocal command as a dog was in route)is usually followed by stimulation..Thus giving the dog special information ...I would take into consideration the intimidation factor by the way the command was given by the handler too...A peek and a verbal back would get you dropped if the rule change had gone into effect as I remember the wording ...Steve s
 
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#34 ·
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#35 ·
john fallon said:
Years ago didn't say in the rules that dogs that looked to the handler for direction(Popped) were of great value ?
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I remember reading a re-print of a news article written about an early field trial... like maybe in the 30's when the rich people were doing it. It was around the time that the Scottish dog trainers were brought over and introduced using a whistle to handle a dog (obviously taken from herding dog training.) Anyhow, the reporter mentioned how very well trained the dogs were and attentive to their handlers, responding to whistles and hand gestures... and sometimes even stopping to see if their handler wanted them to change course.

I am sure that popping existed long before the rules made it a fault.
 
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