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Obstacle Jump Timing Problem-Need Advice

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CHMHFCR

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am training a black lab over obstacles that seems to have a problem with the timing of when to begin his take off. He almost always leaves the ground too soon (too far from the obstacle), which sometimes causes him to crash into the obstacle. He jumps high and when he times the jump correctly, really clears the jump nicely. However he often jumps early, causing him to collide with the obstacle. This may be more of a problem that has been dealt with by obedience or agility oriented trainers. Any advice to correct this dogs poor timing when approaching obstacle jumps is greatly appreciated.

Clint
 
#2 ·
Try an internet search on "dog agility early take off syndrome".

You'll find some articles and videos on the subject that will hopefully help you.

I have the opposite issue - my dogs sometime take off late - too close to the obstacle.
 
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#4 ·
hotel4dogs said:
you also might want to have his eyes checked
Click to expand...
This was my thought. My lab in agility jumps HUGE over fences and sometimes takes off way early too. I have considered having her eyes checked, due to other circumstances I have not. Not that she can wear glasses if there is a problem...

Clean Run an agility magazine just a couple months ago had a big article about early take off syndrome and the first thing they said was get the eyes checked.
 
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#6 ·
What happens if you hang a blanket over the jump so it becomes more solid looking to the dog ...? It may just have a problem seeing the bar due to the background ....depth perception ......Steve S
 
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#8 ·
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Discussion starter · #9 ·
Of the responses so far, I think you may have determined the correct direction I need to head, in order to solve this problem, Julie. I will get Mecklenburg's book, and will look up the articles you have suggested. I am familiar with the Cleanrun website. As far as the eyes go, I do not feel this is the problem. This dog marks really well at long distances and gives no indication that it is his eyesight that is the problem. I am convinced it is a timing issue. However, that being said, I will not discount the eyes and will do some follow up there. This has also made me think about his ears. I am constantly fighting with ear infections on this dog. I just wonder if that could affect his jumping in any way. I spoke with my friend, Steve Bernock, yesterday, and he gave me some good ideas (similar to what Julie has recommended) that involve taking the time to teach proper timing of the jump process to the dog. He knows this particular dog, too, and like me, he doesn't believe this is an eyesight issue. As far as a solid jump, Steve S., these are stacked logs and straw bales that go all the way to the ground. Windy, thanks for your input as well.

The jumps I have set up are in my Double T field. There are three log jumps enroute to the back pile all varying heights from about 12 to 20 inches tall. On my short right over there are two straw bales set end to end that the dog must jump, as well as my long left over. So.....basically I have combined my no no procedure in with my Double T. My field is mowed flat as a golf course with about 4 foot lanes to indicate the back line and each of the over lines. The lanes are determined by about 6 inch wide and 6 inch tall grass strips. I teach my dogs to remain within the contours of the lanes at all times, never allowing a direct return or send (or flair) outside of the lanes. I teach all of the lines (both back and over) first (teaching the log jumps of the back line first as well). Then I teach the dogs over from each of the two intersections. Next I put it together in the single T, and finally the double T. By the time I am finishing up, the dogs have lots of practice with back casts, over casts, come-in casts, and disciplined casting. This overall process has been broken down to simple steps for the teaching/learning process. Bottom line, there is quite a bit of repetition of jumping, and the dogs are quite familiar with the heights and positions of the obstacles. This particualar dog that is having problems is the only one I have ever trained that has had this problem in this environment. He is very eager and willing to please and loves the work, so I do not want him to get hurt. That is why I posted on here for some help. I really believe at this point, he simply needs some specific teaching as to how to jump correctly, and I am going to persue that. And yes, I will have his eyes checked again, all though I do not feel at this time, that is the problem.

Thanks to all who have responded,

Clint
 
#11 ·
Hi
You have gotten some good suggestions so far on jump training. I wanted to mention that the Agility jumping programs ie Linda M's is a great program but it is oriented to agility handling and the dog learning to jump either collected or extended depending on the handler's position, cues and movement. Itys it teaches jumping and handling at the same time.

I started out teaching jumping this way( Linda's program) to my wild fire breathing little Choc girl and she did ok on it.. but it did not teach her how to organize her feet, how to "read" distances between jumps and really learn now to develop a variable stride length. She did not drop rails.. just was not as efficient on courses as I wanted. She tended to overpower in her excitement. I decided she needed something more .

I chose to learn more about Susan Salo's jumping program as it works the dogs on basic grids at very low jump heights first to learn their footwork, how to stride in and out of a grid and develop independent "thinking" about how to negotiate various distances . This is done all without the handler in motion so the dog learns to do it on their own through repetition. It is based on much of what is done in the horse world. I attended a seminar with Susan and it was very helpful in my girls jumping skill development.

Susan Salo has a video out at Clean Run on foundation jumping skills. Many of our longer backed Labradors have trouble with Collecting for jumps and it is easier for them to just power off early.

So.. I guess the question I would have.. is what kind of jumping will your dog be doing? Will you be doing agility.. or do you want your dog to be able to jump properly without you "handling".

Best,
Kim Secter
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Kim, I ordered Mecklenburg's and Zink's books this morning and will take a look at Salo's video as well. Thanks for the recommendation. I am hoping some of these ideas will work. As far as what kind of jumping I will mostly be doing? I think obstacles for field work will be a first priority, although I have also started doing some agility work with this dog. He is a really cool dog that belongs to my daughter. He is a one year old Grady son, and seems to be very talented.

Clint
 
#13 ·
Sherie,
So for field work.. the dog is actually jumping on the way to a "target" or retrieve. Needs to learn how to jump properly with you not really "in" the picture so to speak/ since you are in essence sending your dog out over the jumps away from you to retrieve. You will not be standing next to the jump obstacle to cue the dog to collect stride ....or running along side and decelerating or using verbal or shoulder/ hand cues.

I think that Salo's program would work well for you since all the Foundation work is done with the dog either recalling to you over the jumps or sending away from you to a target. I use my retrieve bumpers often for my "target-sends".


Of course for agility handling you are in the picture either changing your movement or your body position to help the dog know if they need to jump collected( round), or extended( more flat). You need collection for turns and much of Linda M's. program is about the dog learning to collect before jumps for turning cues first with no speed and then eventually with speed . So if you plan to do agility.. Linda's program is outstanding in that regard.

I guess I see that Salo's program is more about the dog just learning the physical skill of how to jump/ organize and read distances. While Linda's program has more to do with the dog learning how to jump as part of a handling program. ( when to jump extended.. ie going in a fast staight line... versus when to jump collected( a turn is coming or I need to enter weave poles next.)

Both are very valuable learning tools.

Good luck with your training it sounds like you have a talented partner.

Kim S.
 
#14 ·
Sherie,

Have fun with your jump training!

I look forward to hearing how it goes!

Julie
 
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#15 ·
If you are starting agility work with the dog, some of the beginning agility work like ladder work, balance disk, and plank work may help just because they help the dog become aware of where their back legs are. Although our field dogs are great at running straight lines, they don't get the level of work on learning how their rear works that an agility dog does. So it could end up that your agility work that is unrelated to jumping could help the jumping just because it heightens your dogs body awareness.

Deb
 
#16 ·
zoomngoldens said:
If you are starting agility work with the dog, some of the beginning agility work like ladder work, balance disk, and plank work may help just because they help the dog become aware of where their back legs are. Although our field dogs are great at running straight lines, they don't get the level of work on learning how their rear works that an agility dog does. So it could end up that your agility work that is unrelated to jumping could help the jumping just because it heightens your dogs body awareness.

Deb
Click to expand...
That's the first thing I thought of. Using cavaletti exercises might help teach the dog to understand where his feet are. You can probably find a better site than this, but it will get you started and at least give you an idea of what to search on. :)

http://www.onlinedogcoach.com/index/articles/lesson-help/cavaletti-dog-exercises/
 
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Melanie Foster
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