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How does one properly evaluate marking ability?

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Donald Flanagan

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
As I read, watch videos, visit websites, etc., I often see people make a statement regarding how well a dog marks: "excellent marker", "fantastic marking dog", and so on. You here top-shelf pros talking about how they saw that a phenomenal dog they had the privilege to train had unusually good marking abilities at a young age.

My question is, when you are evaluating a young dog for marking ability, what kind of test would you set up in order to measure its abilities and its potential?
 
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#2 ·
El Matavenados said:
As I read, watch videos, visit websites, etc., I often see people make a statement regarding how well a dog marks: "excellent marker", "fantastic marking dog", and so on. You here top-shelf pros talking about how they saw that a phenomenal dog they had the privilege to train had unusually good marking abilities at a young age.

My question is, when you are evaluating a young dog for marking ability, what kind of test would you set up in order to measure its abilities and its potential?
Click to expand...
This may not be what your looking for, but to me when a dog flushs a wild bird in 4' high cover, you shoot it and it lands 75 yards away in 4' high cover and the dog comes back with the bird in it's mouth......that's a very GOOD mark.:D

In regard to hunt tests this kinda puts them in perspective.



Just sayin'...........



RK
 
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#3 ·
El Matavenados said:
As I read, watch videos, visit websites, etc., I often see people make a statement regarding how well a dog marks: "excellent marker", "fantastic marking dog", and so on. You here top-shelf pros talking about how they saw that a phenomenal dog they had the privilege to train had unusually good marking abilities at a young age.

My question is, when you are evaluating a young dog for marking ability, what kind of test would you set up in order to measure its abilities and its potential?
Click to expand...
train alone and throw your own multiple marks and (not from the line)...you will find out if your dog can count and mark from a retired gun
 
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#4 ·
El Matavenados said:
As I read, watch videos, visit websites, etc., I often see people make a statement regarding how well a dog marks: "excellent marker", "fantastic marking dog", and so on. You here top-shelf pros talking about how they saw that a phenomenal dog they had the privilege to train had unusually good marking abilities at a young age.

My question is, when you are evaluating a young dog for marking ability, what kind of test would you set up in order to measure its abilities and its potential?
Click to expand...
A good marking dog knows where the bird is located!! He or she won't break stride and put on a hunt until they reach the area of the fall.

Now, the route there sometimes involves training.
succeeding at a mark is natural, understanding a concept is training.
 
#5 · (Edited)
It's a bit like an elephant; hard to describe but easy to recognise!

I'd say that the skill comes from roughly two thirds natural ability, the remainder being a mix of training and experience.

In a hunting dog you just need to watch the animal (rather than the game) and assess his demeanour ... "Nah, that ain't been hit"; "That one's a runner Boss, I heard the shot hit, let's git goin"; "Dead as a stone behind the bush by the stream, relax".

A young dog can't bring experience into play, so it's not wise to come to a definite conclusion to precipitately .... dummies on a grass field aren't pheasants in the hills or duck on the marsh.

Regards

Eug
 
#6 ·


You look for

1) Identification of guns when the dog comes to the line
2) Focus on birds as they are being thrown
3) The path the dog takes to the Area of the Fall (AOF)
4) The signs that a dog is looking for a bird (slowing down, tail crack)
5) The hunt pattern that the dog establishes in the AOF
6) Whether a dog looks towards another mark, as it is returning with a retrieve
7) The way the dog sets up on the mat for a subsequent retrieve

And much, much more
 
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#9 ·
Ted Shih said:


You look for

1) Identification of guns when the dog comes to the line
2) Focus on birds as they are being thrown
3) The path the dog takes to the Area of the Fall (AOF)
4) The signs that a dog is looking for a bird (slowing down, tail crack)
5) The hunt pattern that the dog establishes in the AOF
6) Whether a dog looks towards another mark, as it is returning with a retrieve
7) The way the dog sets up on the mat for a subsequent retrieve

And much, much more
Click to expand...
This is about as clear, concise and cogent a statement as one could hope for in answering this question.
 
#10 ·
IMHO marking has 3 components: vision, memory and commitment.

Vision: picking out guns, different distances and depth perception
Memory: multiple marks, multiple reorientation singles( loosing sight of the guns in route),
how the dog delivers and sits for the memory bird....
Commitment:can the dog think and run at the same time, does the head stay focused going
past other guns/previous retrieves....

JMO

Tim
 
#12 ·
Ted Shih said:
6) Whether a dog looks towards another mark, as it is returning with a retrieve
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Until I was taught that little subtlety as to which bird my dog wanted next on a multiple mark, I always worried about which bird to pick up next
 
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#13 ·
I'm not sure why, but I encourage my young dogs with "Goooooood" at an early age when they are coming back from a retrieve and look over at the next mark. It helps me identify what we're going to need to do to pick up that next mark.
 
#14 ·
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#15 ·
For a young dog as you mentioned, lets say 1yr., I would evaluate it's natural marking abilities by observing how long the dog remains focused on an object after he sees it and after it hit the ground and from various distances..To me it should be more about the marking that gets the dog in the AOF rather than the handling, and the perseverance the dog has that keeps him in it...

A dog that can't mark well will have a hard time developing memory later on with multiple marks...especially with distractions, and for me, focus while marking is part of marking itself.. a huge asset on the dogs end..:cool:
 
#16 ·
Colonel Blimp said:
................In a hunting dog you just need to watch the animal (rather than the game) and assess his demeanour ... "Nah, that ain't been hit"; "That one's a runner Boss, I heard the shot hit, let's git goin"; "Dead as a stone behind the bush by the stream, relax".


............
Eug
Click to expand...
FIRST imagine a HT upland portion, dog remains "mostly" steady (severe creep called CB) on four shots at a cackling rooster, rooster is nicked, rocking and sails about 100 yards out of bounds. Rules say birds out of bounds, not cleanly killed not to be retreived as marks, so they throw a stone dead cold chukar by hand. THANKFULLY the judges gave us some leeway, because I had to handle him to the hand thrown chuker 30 yards in front of us because he was half way to the cripple rooster before I got the whistle blown.. Hunting dogs KNOW cripps when they see them.

I like to sit a dog, throw the marks, or throw the marks from a hidden bumper boy so the dogs are marking the fall not off of stations. seems like a lot of dogs remember direction, and how far a winger can throw and get in troube when there is not visibale gunner/station.
 
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#17 ·
There's a big difference between marking and memory.You really can't evaluate a dog's marking ability until it's doing multiple marks. Any dog can mark a single. If it can't consistently get rid of the dog.Set up a double or a triple and if he steps on the second and third bird or blows past it on the upwind side within 2-3 feet for 5yds slams on the brakes spins around and gets the bird and does that consistently then you know you have a marking dog.Marking is just part of it but it makes the rest of it a whole lot easier. You've got to teach them to take straight lines and not give into the factors, stay in the area of the fall and hunt tight and dig it out. I don't know which I'd rather have a great marker or a dog with great desire(both would be nice) A great marker can go to the bird, miss it and give up shortly where as great desire knows that bird is right there and I'm not leaving until I get it!
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
I really appreciate the great responses. Some of them ("you know it when you see it", for instance) were the very same things I was thinking, and the reason I wanted to try to get you all to write it out to the best of your ability. The lines between the natural traits and those acquired through training seem to get blurred and confused.

Ted, I'd be very interested in reading about some of that "much, much more" you mentioned- I think it's those subtil nuances you mention that will help us noobs to read dogs better (making us better trainers!).
 
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#19 ·
I watched a baby NFC X NFX puppy from her very first marks that were pretty much like any puppy. She would run out, stop look around, get a little hey hey. FF 2-3 weeks she was lengthened out a bit and doing well, using the wind and her nose. In another week some dips were introduced and lengthened out a little more and then she started to put her head on the marks and you just go whoa, just like her mother and great grandmother. I will say she's gonna be able to mark. She just started doing it all at once.
 
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#20 ·
i love seeing 2 things especially: seeing a dog looking over to the next mark as he returns with a bird, knowing where it is, even though he is seeing the reverse perspective.

and seeing the dog really think it through when he is having a bit of an effort finding the bird, realizing he is too deep, or too wide, and working that as opposed to just running around the area of fall randomly until you get a SOB.
 
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