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The No command?

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Brad

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
How do you use it in training or in general?
I have been using it a lot in training, such as if the dog starts heading towards suction , I may whistle, No, recast then if keeps going same direction, whistle, no, nick, then recast.
I have been told to use No and not to.
Whats your opinions?
Thanks, Brad
 
#2 ·
Lining up for a blind retrieve, soft voice – “no heel, no here, gooood….. BACK!”
On the honor, soft voice – “no bird, no”
Leaving the line past the judges lunch, moderate voice – “No heel!”
Sitting on the toilet and hearing a dog smurfing in the kitchen trash can, loud voice to unseen dog “NO”
Sitting in the recliner, beer and T.V. remote in hand and you hear the hoof beats approaching.
As defensive position is taken a loud “NO” is given but often ignored.
I talk lots to my Chessies and unlike normal dogs they have a vast vocabulary. I cant imagine not saying no.




.
 
#3 ·
..When they continue to ask ya' if they can go for a ride on the tractor......NO!

My gawd, once they figure out how to start 'em you can't keep 'em off of it,... and they'll burn up every drop of fuel in it....:cool:



Image
 
#4 ·
Ian Dunbar has some ideas about 'No!'. He prefers what he calls an 'instructional reprimand'. He thinks 'No' offers the dog no information until the next command is given. As in, 'No, Here!' or No, Heel'. For most dog owners, the following command is not given, or is confusing to the dog...perhaps.

So, why not just say 'Here' or 'Heel' without the 'No!'. The dog knows, from the tone of your voice, it committed faux paux, and the command 'Heel' or 'Here' tells the dog everything it needs to know about how to respond.

On pile work a bit, but more later with cold blinds, I started out using a quiet 'No' when I was lining my dog, and he was looking right, or left, or back and forth. When he, finally looked right, I would say 'Good' to confirm. But, boy, I could never keep up with the dog, 'No', 'No', 'Good', 'No' 'Good'...'Good...Back'. Always late and behind the dog. Poor dog :(

Then I just started to remain silent as he looked around, and only say 'Good' to confirm, hand down, and followed quickly by 'Back'.

It's working better for me... perhaps the less said the better :confused:

Ouch! I think I just set myself up for....

Snick
 
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#5 ·
I don't say NO when lining up for blinds. I hear people, no...no...no and no wonder the dog is confused. So much better to emphacize the positive.
 
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Discussion starter · #6 ·
Snicklefritz said:
Ian Dunbar has some ideas about 'No!'. He prefers what he calls an 'instructional reprimand'. He thinks 'No' offers the dog no information until the next command is given. As in, 'No, Here!' or No, Heel'. For most dog owners, the following command is not given, or is confusing to the dog...perhaps.

So, why not just say 'Here' or 'Heel' without the 'No!'. The dog knows, from the tone of your voice, it committed faux paux, and the command 'Heel' or 'Here' tells the dog everything it needs to know about how to respond.

On pile work a bit, but more later with cold blinds, I started out using a quiet 'No' when I was lining my dog, and he was looking right, or left, or back and forth. When he, finally looked right, I would say 'Good' to confirm. But, boy, I could never keep up with the dog, 'No', 'No', 'Good', 'No' 'Good'...'Good...Back'. Always late and behind the dog. Poor dog :(

Then I just started to remain silent as he looked around, and only say 'Good' to confirm, hand down, and followed quickly by 'Back'.

It's working better for me... perhaps the less said the better :confused:

Ouch! I think I just set myself up for....

Snick
Click to expand...

Snick, You may have set your self up, but that is more along the lines of my question. I am not trying to set no one up
No is supposed to be a powerfull word, and if you are saying no, good , no. Doesnt it get over used and they ignore it?
 
#8 ·
Brad said:
Snick, You may have set your self up, but that is more along the lines of my question. I am not trying to set no one up
No is supposed to be a powerfull word, and if you are saying no, good , no. Doesnt it get over used and they ignore it?
Click to expand...
It's a real possibility, especially if 'NO!' intended by your manner as a 'correction'... has no consequence. What I was trying to do was use 'No' as in "Nope! Thank you for playing. Please try again!" Very matter of fact, no correction intended. A 'No Reward Marker' rather than a 'correction'.

However that may work in principle, and it has proven very effective when things are happening so danged fast, I was just too damned slow for it to be effective. And, the end result may have been confusion, and loss of attitude for my dog.

Snick
 
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#10 ·
I use very few if any no's on the line.
 
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#11 ·
I try not to use NO. For one reason my older dog won't pay any attention to the word. The second reason, it might be confusing at the line especially when doing blinds. It is just a word however but I think you can use any word and with the correct tone of your voice you would get a response. Having said that it is awfully hard to keep the word No out of the picture!!
 
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#12 ·
Mary Lynn said:
I try not to use NO. For one reason my older dog won't pay any attention to the word. The second reason, it might be confusing at the line especially when doing blinds. It is just a word however but I think you can use any word and with the correct tone of your voice you would get a response. Having said that it is awfully hard to keep the word No out of the picture!!
Click to expand...
Yup, we're human...and sometimes it's darned hard not to say 'NO!' Thank Gawd the dogs are forgiving...:D

Snick
 
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#15 ·
Threads like this really emphasize for me how differently some RTF people train. Well at least from me.

I teach all my dogs NO very early on-it may someday save their life. It should be powerful.

In training I have many uses of “No”. I have a mild No= try again as in No-No drill. I think Snick called it “nope” which is quite accurate.

I have a “no bird” instruction which is just a paired phrase I use on the honour or when doing a poison bird. I could say other things like “honour” or “leave it” or “mashed potatoes” but “no bird” is intuitive and easy. I will even precede a poison bird before it is thrown with “no bird” and hand down! Tone of voice is important here.

While on line, looking out into the field, the use of NO is fraught with danger. Whether on a mark or a blind saying ‘yes’ or ‘no’ can be so easily badly timed. Just as you say “good” the dog eyeballs the poison bird. Just as you say “no” the dog eyeballs the key bird. It happens all the time. I mostly just say “sit”. When there is no conflict I will say “there” or “that’s it” in a black and white situation.

For corrections, I don’t say No and correct because as someone said it doesn't tell them what to do., Even No Sit or No Here is usually not necessary. However, I do think that NO HERE or NO SIT can be used as an additional level of pressure if needed and I have done that. But there is always an action command to follow. Most of the time the simpler here, heel, sit, back will suffice and be cleaner.

Does that muddy the water or clear it up!!

Cheers
 
#16 ·
Howard N said:
I use very few if any no's on the line.
Click to expand...
I agree with you and Nancy. Unless the dog was blatantly looking in the wrong direction after giving him plenty of instruction (using here and heel) then perhaps it would warrant a "no" but that would be the rare case.

I'm finishing up yard work with my youngster and I did use "no" when she succumbed to suction say on the pattern blind field. It was a whistle, sit, no, cast. Of course since she was just learning no collar correction was used but I did want to get the message across that the behavior was incorrect.
 
#17 ·
RetrieversONLINE said:
Threads like this really emphasize for me how differently some RTF people train. Well at least from me.

I teach all my dogs NO very early on-it may someday save their life. It should be powerful.

In training I have many uses of “No”. I have a mild No= try again as in No-No drill. I think Snick called it “nope” which is quite accurate.

I have a “no bird” instruction which is just a paired phrase I use on the honour or when doing a poison bird. I could say other things like “honour” or “leave it” or “mashed potatoes” but “no bird” is intuitive and easy. I will even precede a poison bird before it is thrown with “no bird” and hand down! Tone of voice is important here.

While on line, looking out into the field, the use of NO is fraught with danger. Whether on a mark or a blind saying ‘yes’ or ‘no’ can be so easily badly timed. Just as you say “good” the dog eyeballs the poison bird. Just as you say “no” the dog eyeballs the key bird. It happens all the time. I mostly just say “sit”. When there is no conflict I will say “there” or “that’s it” in a black and white situation.

For corrections, I don’t say No and correct because as someone said it doesn't tell them what to do., Even No Sit or No Here is usually not necessary. However, I do think that NO HERE or NO SIT can be used as an additional level of pressure if needed and I have done that. But there is always an action command to follow. Most of the time the simpler here, heel, sit, back will suffice and be cleaner.

Does that muddy the water or clear it up!!

Cheers
Click to expand...
Very nice, Dennis. I learned 'Out!' from working, very briefly, with K9 trained dogs. I has, actually, had the same life-saving effect you commented on when used rarely. But, as most everyone is saying, and I learned the hard way, too many 'No's' at the line can produce unintended consequences.

Not muddy, and very clear to me...at least.

Thanks,

Chuck
 
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#18 ·
Melanie Foster said:
I agree with you and Nancy. Unless the dog was blatantly looking in the wrong direction after giving him plenty of instruction (using here and heel) then perhaps it would warrant a "no" but that would be the rare case.

I'm finishing up yard work with my youngster and I did use "no" when she succumbed to suction say on the pattern blind field. It was a whistle, sit, no, cast. Of course since she was just learning no collar correction was used but I did want to get the message across that the behavior was incorrect.
Click to expand...
Without disagreeing with you, cause I wasn't there, and for the sake of discussionr for other newcomers (other than me ) ....if a dog is just stuck on the wrong direction (suction?), could it be the setup is more than the dog can handle at that point in his training. What do you thing about changing the setup, by perhaps, moving up, reducing the suction in some way, or running from a slightly different direction?

Or, that may be yet another topic for another thread...:(

Snick
 
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#19 · (Edited)
could it be the setup is more than the dog can handle at that point in his training
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It's called "teaching". You teach them to cast into the wind. You teach them they aren't supposed to give into a suction. You are never going to learn algebra if you are stuck on addition. You show them the "Yes". You can simplify and break it down to make it easier, but you have to advance eventually.
 
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