Ran a Master test this past weekend that had an outgoing diversion on a down the shore blind. This was in the second series, cold blind to start it. Not mad about the set up or my dog for picking up the bird, which was 20 ft or less from the dog. I was just curious as to how many people actually train on out going diversions. Only other time I've seen one was in an SRS and there was a lot more separation.
Out Going Diversion
birdboy
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Ran a Master test this past weekend that had an outgoing diversion on a down the shore blind. This was in the second series, cold blind to start it. Not mad about the set up or my dog for picking up the bird, which was 20 ft or less from the dog. I was just curious as to how many people actually train on out going diversions. Only other time I've seen one was in an SRS and there was a lot more separation.
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If the judge doesn't know a trained responce when they see one -- so be it.
But you can throw 6 birds out there if you want to. I can tell my dogs which one I want them to get. Without that trained responce, can you?
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Wasn't that an interesting set up. We were the first dog, and didn't make it also, but we were really bleeding after the shinanigans he pulled on the line during the first series.
I have trained for something similar but not exactly like that one. In all honesty I wasn't worried about it.
Got to love dogs.
I have trained for something similar but not exactly like that one. In all honesty I wasn't worried about it.
Got to love dogs.
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The OP didn't question the legality of the test, just who trained on it.
I haven't trained on it, but I guess I will do a little now.
So that's 2 yeses and a no.
I haven't trained on it, but I guess I will do a little now.
So that's 2 yeses and a no.
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Sorry. I wasn't trying to question the legality of it. I don't run many Master tests and was wondering how common this was and how often some of you trained on it. Not trying to be a poor sport. I like a challenge and like to see my dog do well in challenging situations. My hat is off to the sixteen dogs that passed.
Sorry captainjack, you beat me to it.
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A few members of my training grooup really started training on them 2 summers ago as apparently they were showing up in the midwest fairly frequently.
As Tom said though, something similar to a sit to flush response seems quite helpful. WOuld seem that even without it just blowing the whistle would help. An extra whistle and cast vs. a dog covering 20 feet in a hurry seems like a good trade off.
As Tom said though, something similar to a sit to flush response seems quite helpful. WOuld seem that even without it just blowing the whistle would help. An extra whistle and cast vs. a dog covering 20 feet in a hurry seems like a good trade off.
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Sounds like an enroute poison bird water blind to me. In answer to the question, yes I have. But not lately. Thanks for the reminder. A poison bird live flyer is best to train on. HPW
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That would be my question, how did most dogs handle it? Bird comes out, dog goes for it, handler blows the whistle and the dog keeps going?
Something to train for I guess.
My dogs first exposure to a diversion pop came at the Rockwall HT. I know, I know some trainer I am.
I just blew the whistle and he came in.
Something to train for I guess.
My dogs first exposure to a diversion pop came at the Rockwall HT. I know, I know some trainer I am.
I just blew the whistle and he came in.
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That is the last concept in a 6 drill series called Definitive Casting. Effectively, it's a delayed poison bird, since it's thrown after the dog leaves the line.
Train through that series of drills and your dog will cast right off it. That will score better than a pop. An un commanded stop is a pop, and few judges won't score it that way.
It's not that hard to train for, once you've done your other essential diversion mark work, up to poison birds. Add the definitive casting drills and you should have plenty of control for that.
Evan
Train through that series of drills and your dog will cast right off it. That will score better than a pop. An un commanded stop is a pop, and few judges won't score it that way.
It's not that hard to train for, once you've done your other essential diversion mark work, up to poison birds. Add the definitive casting drills and you should have plenty of control for that.
Evan
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As Harry stated , the answer should be yes.....train on them ....I believe the diversion drill is not complete until the dog understands poison birds in route and the flier is the ultimate temptation....You need good flier shooters too... Steve S
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Once the dog is sent, especially into the water, all guns are put on safe. The goal is to walk away with dead ducks not freakin dead dogs. Isn't that what hunting tests are supposed to simulate? Judges who do this sort of thing aren't doing anyone any favors. Throw the poison while the dog is on line watching, then run the blind. Same with diversions with dog coming back in. What sort of bone head is going to shoot at a dog out in the field.
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As I design them the bird is launched well ahead of and away from the dog. Shot would have to reverse course on its own to represent danger to the dog. The key is that the flighted bird is in clear view of the dog as a diversion to his route, and therefore a heightened challenge to control.
Evan
Evan
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10000% agree!
I've said the same thing for a LONG time when I see scenarios like the one mentioned.....I find that its the guys who regularly hunt waterfowl and also involved in the retriever games are the ones that pick up on it
To answer the OP questions......I train for diversions but Don't make it a common practice to set THAT particular scenario up....I don't "hunt" that way so I don't "train" that way...........I think I have given the dog the tools to negotiate the set up...and in a test situation I think we could come out "OK"
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My dogs are trained to put their butts on the ground whenever they see something in the air, such as in a walk-up situation or when birds are flushing and I often run poison bird blinds under the arc of birds so to answer your question, yes. HOWEVER, my point was simply that, by rule, if a dog stops on a blind without being given a command, that is a pop, trained response or not. In that situation, I'd sure as heck hit a sit whistle as soon as that bird was being thrown and not leave it up to the judges' opinions as to whether it was a pop or an act of strict obedience.
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Just curious. Why do you feel a live flyer is best to train on for this scenario?
Gotta disagree on this, Joel. Without the shot or diversion, then yes. However, given that the dog "responded" in a trained manner to the shot/diversion, not a pop.
The rules talk specifically about marked retrieves but refer to extenuating circumstances on blind retrieves and also that it is a "voluntary" stop without command. They also state that the judges should agree on what will be considered a pop. I would certainly never agree that a sit on a shot or outgoing diversion is a pop.
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