So I have been in shock with my year and a half old lab over the last 2 weeks. So here is what's going on. He is currently a JH titled dog and never had a problem running on marks. Two weeks ago he started going out half way to the thrown mark and just stopping and staring at the area where the mark landed. If you call him back to heal and send him again he will go right too it but obviously thats counter productive. He wont stop on live birds but will on dead ones. So here is what we have tried so far. Shortning up the marks, holding him longer at the line, letting him a little lose on the line, Putting him away and not letting him have the mark after he stops and having the thrower hollar for him "Seems to work most of the time". So has anyone else had this problem if so how did the correct it?
Stopping on marks???
Chris Winkelman
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So I have been in shock with my year and a half old lab over the last 2 weeks. So here is what's going on. He is currently a JH titled dog and never had a problem running on marks. Two weeks ago he started going out half way to the thrown mark and just stopping and staring at the area where the mark landed. If you call him back to heal and send him again he will go right too it but obviously thats counter productive. He wont stop on live birds but will on dead ones. So here is what we have tried so far. Shortning up the marks, holding him longer at the line, letting him a little lose on the line, Putting him away and not letting him have the mark after he stops and having the thrower hollar for him "Seems to work most of the time". So has anyone else had this problem if so how did the correct it?
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Nuttier things than this happen. But before we talk about cures, what steps of training have been done with this dog, and how? What tools does he have?
Evan
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Could be you've recently introduced a new concept, or doing something differently that has created an issue on simple single marks..
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Do you hand throw most of your marks..... i had this problem with my pup for about a week. Thats all I could contribute it to. If so, I can tell ya what worked for me. Problem is gone.
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He is Currently doing senior level work and runs simple blinds. The dog is nuts about birds. I have never thrown a bird/bumper from my side for him the are always hand thrown by someone else.
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What happened when you shortened the marks up? What distances are you talking about? Is there a distance where he'll go all the way? I mean, if you throw a 10 yard mark, does he stop at 5 yards? How's his momentum? Does he sprint off the line and then slam the brakes? Or does he take off in a jog/walk and seem unsure of himself the entire time? What's he do with fun bumpers? Do you train with an e-collar? Might he have gotten a correction for something on a mark that is causing this?
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His normal marks are around 150 yards I have shortened them to about 15yards and yes thats exactly what he's doing flying off the line full speed then locks up the brakes half way there no matter how short the mark is.
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If I'm going to be able to help you with this I need more specific information please. Senior is not a level of training, but rather only a class of HT competition. Many dogs run in Senior every weekend that are not trained appropriately for it.
Is your dog through Basics?
The components of Basics in order
1) “Here”
2) “Heel & Sit”
3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8) Single tee
9) Double tee
10) Water tee with Swim-by
If this is not complete, you may already have identified the source of your problem, and more potential ones soon to come.
Evan
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fetch - nick - fetch comes to mind. Have the bird boy throw another after the command while he is standing out there. I am assuming the dog has been force fetched.
The dog seems confused from what I can understand from your posts. Simplify to the point of there being no confusion. I would find a mowed area throw a 40 yard mark if he stops fetch - nick - fetch and throw another until there is no confusion.
How is the balance in your training? I have seen popping during marked retrieves in dogs that run too many blinds. Does the dog turn and look at you or stare out at the bird?
Maybe its a long range point
The dog seems confused from what I can understand from your posts. Simplify to the point of there being no confusion. I would find a mowed area throw a 40 yard mark if he stops fetch - nick - fetch and throw another until there is no confusion.
How is the balance in your training? I have seen popping during marked retrieves in dogs that run too many blinds. Does the dog turn and look at you or stare out at the bird?
Maybe its a long range point
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Evan,
To answer your question "yes" all of the above work has been completed. I have also noticed him starting to pop on blind work as well so I have started laying off the blind work to tackle one problem at a time. Hope this helps.
To answer your question "yes" all of the above work has been completed. I have also noticed him starting to pop on blind work as well so I have started laying off the blind work to tackle one problem at a time. Hope this helps.
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Savage,
He stops and looks out twards the mark it does not seem he is looking for a cast of any kind.
He stops and looks out twards the mark it does not seem he is looking for a cast of any kind.
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Yes, that helps a lot. Thanks!
In the short term, "Back"/nick - "Back" the instant the dog commits to the pop. I don't wait until they've stopped & sat, but rather I force when I've read that they're in the process. Restore momentum as quickly as possible. No retrieving happens without momentum, so it's job 1.
In the meantime, rather than losing sleep over what may be a cause that you may never really know anyway, work towards a long term solution. Instead of running your marks at uniform distances and conditions, ease up on cover, and run progressive marking drills. Start very short, and have your bird boy walk a course at your direction on a diagonal route - extending distance about 5 yards on each successive single mark. Success feeds on success, so make sure he is successful on all his marks for at least the next week or two. Then gradually move back toward marks that challenge him a bit more.
Evan
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Like Evan said, you may never understand why this started, but cause doesn’t matter, solution does.
His advice (back-nick-back) should fix this. A more thorough de-pop process on marks might be advisable if there's still some residual tendency to pop after a time.
His advice (back-nick-back) should fix this. A more thorough de-pop process on marks might be advisable if there's still some residual tendency to pop after a time.
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Angie, Is "Fire drilling" continued dry shots to pull the dog to the bird from the shots fired at the gun station? I remember someone using the term "Fire Drill", now I may know what they meant!
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Even if finding the cause has little to do with the solution, I would like to know.
If I understand the post correctly, the dog is popping "backwards" on marks.
That seems pretty weird to me!
I have seen dogs with a strong tendency to stop facing the blind/pile when stopped by the Handler, but I can't say that I've ever seen or heard of, a dog stopping on it's own, without also turning around and "asking for help".
I can't help but wonder, if this has something to do with training for poison birds, or diversions.
If I understand the post correctly, the dog is popping "backwards" on marks.
That seems pretty weird to me!
I have seen dogs with a strong tendency to stop facing the blind/pile when stopped by the Handler, but I can't say that I've ever seen or heard of, a dog stopping on it's own, without also turning around and "asking for help".
I can't help but wonder, if this has something to do with training for poison birds, or diversions.
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It's throwing bird, after bird, after, bird with a shot for every bird to get junior to the bird.Angie, Is "Fire drilling" continued dry shots to pull the dog to the bird from the shots fired at the gun station? I remember someone using the term "Fire Drill", now I may know what they meant!
The dog is seizing up for whatever reason... I prefer to "pull" the dog to the mark as opposed to "pushing" the dog to the mark. In this particular situation,
I'm sure the OP has a very well bred dog and it's basics are solid. It's just having a adolescent moment. After all he is a dog...
It's happened to me with a few of my dogs. They can have a lot on their plate in other areas of their training at this age.
Just get them going to the bird. DON'T make a big deal out of it...
FWIW
Angie
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