Can anyone post a diagram or two of some typical Q set ups or tests? Thx.
Typical Q steup?
greencaps
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Sorry, I don't think there is a typical Q test anymore. I have seen everything from short hunt-testy style quals, to huge test that seem to be harder than the all age stakes that weekend. A qual used to be close to an all age triple, but with no retired guns, or maybe a hard double with the long gun retired. Now I'm seeing indented triples with the short gun retired and everything else.
I would say train on regular all age test and hopefully you are over prepared to run a qual.
John
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15,660 Posts
Next week copy the ten series from the National Open,shorten the distance by about 20% and you will see similar concepts coming soon to a FT in your neighborhood
I have just started to run Q stakes, so I will post you all of the Q stakes that I have seen in the past year (not that many):
Q #1 (Just a spectator)
First Series - Triple. Go Bird Right about 125 yards at 2 O'clock. Memory Bird One Left about 150 yards at 10:00 O'clock. Memory Bird Two at 12:00 O'clock Retired at 250. ( Bird Boy hiding in woods, nothing visible from line)
Second Series - Line moved to the left so that the line to the land blind went through Memory Bird One, and Flyer Station / Area of Fall. Total distance about 200 yards.
Third Series - Water Blind down the shore over point. Total distance about 175 yards.
Fourth Series (Many Dogs failed Water Blind). Water Double. No retired.
Q #2
1st Series - Single at 175 yards. Small Pond in between line and AOF. Direct Line took dog over mound once exiting pond (causing dogs to go either left or right and hook gun, or wide right).
2nd Series - Double with line moved 50 yards to right of first line.. Go Bird at 50 yards into ditch. Memory Bird about 225 through multiple cut strips and rolling hills.
3rd Series - Land Blind about 150 yards. Line moved to middle of lines for first two series. Short Mark from 2nd Series remained in chair and white coat, and was halfway to blind.
4th Series - Land Blind about 100 yards. Start at top of hill. down hill line to blind was through edge of cover. cut path around cover would lead to blind.
5th series - Water Blind at 225 yards. Start at top of hill. 100 yards on land down hill. Enter water. Hit point 75 yards into water. Over point, into water, out of water and another 25 yards up other side hill to blind.
6th Series - Water Triple - No Retired. Flyer go bird on left at 175 yards (land for 75 yards - water for 50 yards - land for 50 yards). Short Left Memory bird thrown into water with splash, but line to mark depended on where you entered from finger into pond. Long memory bird run on land, into water, out on dike, back into water, out of water to bird.
As you can see, this was a VERY UNCONVENTIONAL Q. But it worked, and caused dogs problems.
Q #3
1st Series - Flyer on left at 150 yards. Long memory bird 275 yards out, true line to long memory bird was hip pocket to the short retired middle bird at 75 yards.
2nd Series - Land Blind. about 150 yards.
3rd Series - Water blind about 100 yards - not much too it
4th Series - Triple on very hard technical pond. Go bird on right was thrown on point at 75 yards. memory bird on left was thrown on far side of pond at 125 yards. memory middle bird was thrown from one point to another point at 175 yards. Dogs had to get in water out of water and back into water and pick the correct point to hunt on.
Q#4
First series - Land Triple on rolling terrain. Flyer go bird was up middle at 175 yards. Memory bird on left was at 75 yards. Memory bird on right was 150 yards. Line to this bird was through high cover (about 6 foot tall) 25 yards out. Landed in middle of high cover (not higher than dogs).
Second Series - Land Blind - about 200 yards. directly pass flyer crates from first series.
Third Series - Water Blind. Started with no see-um. Up over dike. Into Water for 40 yards. Get out of water for 30 yards (both water portion and land portion was within 3-4 yards of shoreline). Get back in water for 40 yards to blind.
Fourth Series - Water Triple. Go bird about 30 yards on right (3:00 O'clock). Short Memory on left (9:00 O'Clock) in water out of water and run up hill into woods - total about 40 yards. middle retired thrown to corner of pond at 1:00 O'clock. total distance about 100 yards (if dogs got out of water, they drove up hill into big field.
Q #5
First two series - Land double (1st series) with Land Blind (2nd Series). Go bird was thrown at 12:00 O'clock 125 yards out. Memory was thrown at 1:00 O'Clock 225 yards out. Land was rolling.
Land blind was at 10:00 O'clock at 175 yards past large tree into cover.
Water Blind third series - no-see um up over dike, into water (swim close to shore for 50 yards before open water for 50 more yards). total distance maybe 125 yards.
Water Triple fourth series - Go bird thrown down shoreline at 75 yards on left at 9:00 O'Clock.. Memory One on right was at 75 yards retired at 1:00 O'clock. Memory Bird two was in middle at 150 yards at 12:00 O'clock.
Q #5
First Series - Land Triple. No Retired. Go bird flyer on right at 140 yards at 1:00 O'Clock. Memory Bird One on Left at 11:00 O'Clock at 140 yards. Memory Bird Two up middle at 12:00 O'Clock at 175 yards.
Second Series - Land Blind - down hill,. up hill past flyer station at 175 yards.
Third Series - Water Blind. 100 yards. Had to go on land, get into water, cut through V in pond, out of water, to blind.
Fourth Series - Water Triple. Go bird on left 40 yards at 1:00 O'clock. Memory Bird One on right at 11:00 O'Clock at 100 yards. Memory Bird Two retired in middle at 12:00 O'Clock at 125 yards. Bird thrown down hill along tree line. All dogs wanted to hunt the wood, and into the opening in the tree line, where the bird boy was retired.
Those are all of the ones I can remember. The one thing to point out is that the descriptions given are only the distances and locations. The thing that can not really be taken into account is the lay of the land. The rolling hills, the cover, etc, but it gives you an idea of what some of the Q stakes I have seen look like.
Q #1 (Just a spectator)
First Series - Triple. Go Bird Right about 125 yards at 2 O'clock. Memory Bird One Left about 150 yards at 10:00 O'clock. Memory Bird Two at 12:00 O'clock Retired at 250. ( Bird Boy hiding in woods, nothing visible from line)
Second Series - Line moved to the left so that the line to the land blind went through Memory Bird One, and Flyer Station / Area of Fall. Total distance about 200 yards.
Third Series - Water Blind down the shore over point. Total distance about 175 yards.
Fourth Series (Many Dogs failed Water Blind). Water Double. No retired.
Q #2
1st Series - Single at 175 yards. Small Pond in between line and AOF. Direct Line took dog over mound once exiting pond (causing dogs to go either left or right and hook gun, or wide right).
2nd Series - Double with line moved 50 yards to right of first line.. Go Bird at 50 yards into ditch. Memory Bird about 225 through multiple cut strips and rolling hills.
3rd Series - Land Blind about 150 yards. Line moved to middle of lines for first two series. Short Mark from 2nd Series remained in chair and white coat, and was halfway to blind.
4th Series - Land Blind about 100 yards. Start at top of hill. down hill line to blind was through edge of cover. cut path around cover would lead to blind.
5th series - Water Blind at 225 yards. Start at top of hill. 100 yards on land down hill. Enter water. Hit point 75 yards into water. Over point, into water, out of water and another 25 yards up other side hill to blind.
6th Series - Water Triple - No Retired. Flyer go bird on left at 175 yards (land for 75 yards - water for 50 yards - land for 50 yards). Short Left Memory bird thrown into water with splash, but line to mark depended on where you entered from finger into pond. Long memory bird run on land, into water, out on dike, back into water, out of water to bird.
As you can see, this was a VERY UNCONVENTIONAL Q. But it worked, and caused dogs problems.
Q #3
1st Series - Flyer on left at 150 yards. Long memory bird 275 yards out, true line to long memory bird was hip pocket to the short retired middle bird at 75 yards.
2nd Series - Land Blind. about 150 yards.
3rd Series - Water blind about 100 yards - not much too it
4th Series - Triple on very hard technical pond. Go bird on right was thrown on point at 75 yards. memory bird on left was thrown on far side of pond at 125 yards. memory middle bird was thrown from one point to another point at 175 yards. Dogs had to get in water out of water and back into water and pick the correct point to hunt on.
Q#4
First series - Land Triple on rolling terrain. Flyer go bird was up middle at 175 yards. Memory bird on left was at 75 yards. Memory bird on right was 150 yards. Line to this bird was through high cover (about 6 foot tall) 25 yards out. Landed in middle of high cover (not higher than dogs).
Second Series - Land Blind - about 200 yards. directly pass flyer crates from first series.
Third Series - Water Blind. Started with no see-um. Up over dike. Into Water for 40 yards. Get out of water for 30 yards (both water portion and land portion was within 3-4 yards of shoreline). Get back in water for 40 yards to blind.
Fourth Series - Water Triple. Go bird about 30 yards on right (3:00 O'clock). Short Memory on left (9:00 O'Clock) in water out of water and run up hill into woods - total about 40 yards. middle retired thrown to corner of pond at 1:00 O'clock. total distance about 100 yards (if dogs got out of water, they drove up hill into big field.
Q #5
First two series - Land double (1st series) with Land Blind (2nd Series). Go bird was thrown at 12:00 O'clock 125 yards out. Memory was thrown at 1:00 O'Clock 225 yards out. Land was rolling.
Land blind was at 10:00 O'clock at 175 yards past large tree into cover.
Water Blind third series - no-see um up over dike, into water (swim close to shore for 50 yards before open water for 50 more yards). total distance maybe 125 yards.
Water Triple fourth series - Go bird thrown down shoreline at 75 yards on left at 9:00 O'Clock.. Memory One on right was at 75 yards retired at 1:00 O'clock. Memory Bird two was in middle at 150 yards at 12:00 O'clock.
Q #5
First Series - Land Triple. No Retired. Go bird flyer on right at 140 yards at 1:00 O'Clock. Memory Bird One on Left at 11:00 O'Clock at 140 yards. Memory Bird Two up middle at 12:00 O'Clock at 175 yards.
Second Series - Land Blind - down hill,. up hill past flyer station at 175 yards.
Third Series - Water Blind. 100 yards. Had to go on land, get into water, cut through V in pond, out of water, to blind.
Fourth Series - Water Triple. Go bird on left 40 yards at 1:00 O'clock. Memory Bird One on right at 11:00 O'Clock at 100 yards. Memory Bird Two retired in middle at 12:00 O'Clock at 125 yards. Bird thrown down hill along tree line. All dogs wanted to hunt the wood, and into the opening in the tree line, where the bird boy was retired.
Those are all of the ones I can remember. The one thing to point out is that the descriptions given are only the distances and locations. The thing that can not really be taken into account is the lay of the land. The rolling hills, the cover, etc, but it gives you an idea of what some of the Q stakes I have seen look like.
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5,252 Posts
Probably won't get too many takers answering your question. There probably isn't a typical Q set up as one reply said.
If I may ask a question...
What are you planning to do with the information you get?
If your plan is to set up some of these typical Q tests and prepare your dog for a Q, you may be better served by asking what training set ups do RTFers use or what set ups should a dog be proficient at in order to be competative in a Qualifying Stake.
Just a thought...
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278 Posts
Wow !! Amazing thread. That would have takin me all day.. Congrats !!
This is a shot of qualifying 4th series, just a double. I'm trying to locate a photo of a first series...
I agree with the statement above; no such thing as a typical qual. Most (not all, but most) are at or near Amateur level setups. Be ready to finish an Am and you should be good to go in a Q.
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I agree with the statement above; no such thing as a typical qual. Most (not all, but most) are at or near Amateur level setups. Be ready to finish an Am and you should be good to go in a Q.
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3,256 Posts
As others have said they can vary quite a bit. However, based on the ones around these parts, if you made me bet the ranch on one thing that you are likely to see, I would say hip pocket with one of them retired--sometimes both, but usually one is left out
To follow up with my detailed recap of the areas you need to work on, I will add you my thoughts on where I am lacking (notice I said I and not my pup) in training to compete in the Q at this moment.
1. Obviously need to be able to do triples. Distances are relative, but the only set-up that I have seen where I thought my pup could not get through the first series was the long memory hip pocket to the short retired.
2. Retired Guns. I do not have great access to water, so my water training is lacking, and so is the Retired Guns on water. I feel very comfortable on land retired guns, but when we get to the water, it appears he is so overwhelmed that he goes in the area, but has large hunts on the water retired.
3. Blinds past old areas of fall, and or old gunners. I have seen it quite a bit where the blind has you run past the area of fall of the flyer, or where they leave a gun station out with white on it, and you need to run past that gun.
4. Water blinds that are down the shore.
I think those are the main areas where I see improvement on my part is needed, but will give you a guideline of some concepts that may help you in the future.
Good luck
1. Obviously need to be able to do triples. Distances are relative, but the only set-up that I have seen where I thought my pup could not get through the first series was the long memory hip pocket to the short retired.
2. Retired Guns. I do not have great access to water, so my water training is lacking, and so is the Retired Guns on water. I feel very comfortable on land retired guns, but when we get to the water, it appears he is so overwhelmed that he goes in the area, but has large hunts on the water retired.
3. Blinds past old areas of fall, and or old gunners. I have seen it quite a bit where the blind has you run past the area of fall of the flyer, or where they leave a gun station out with white on it, and you need to run past that gun.
4. Water blinds that are down the shore.
I think those are the main areas where I see improvement on my part is needed, but will give you a guideline of some concepts that may help you in the future.
Good luck
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