Anyone have a list or a Link???
thank you in advance!
thank you in advance!
Top Field Trial goldens of all time
David Lo Buono
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The photos I have of Rip basically appeared in the S/O '11 issue of the GRNews---or at least those photos that could be reproduced. Some are just too dark or old and even Sylvia's magic doesn't get them to work.
Gerry, where were you when I needed you? We will talk!
Again, if I get any more info on Goldens that have already been covered, can do some follow-up features. After the Tigathoe 4, came up with some tidbit type of info I didn't have at the time it was written up.
Glenda
Gerry, where were you when I needed you? We will talk!
Again, if I get any more info on Goldens that have already been covered, can do some follow-up features. After the Tigathoe 4, came up with some tidbit type of info I didn't have at the time it was written up.
Glenda
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Gradually working my way through the News.
Great articles by Dennis Voight and Bill Hillman. Both have a lot to offer to people at any stage in their venture into field work. Hillman's article was brief but said a LOT!
Great articles by Dennis Voight and Bill Hillman. Both have a lot to offer to people at any stage in their venture into field work. Hillman's article was brief but said a LOT!
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9,030 Posts
Some statistics in line with this topic ... from the GRCA News article on "The Tigathoe Four".
For those who may not know, the breeding of Tigathoe's Chickasaw & FC-AFC-CFC Bonnie Brooks Elmer was done 2X. Nothing much, it appears, came from the first breeding in 1969. The 2nd litter was whelped in Nov. 1971. That litter produced 4 FC-AFCs, one of those being Dual CH Quar. (Tigathoe's Funky Farquar, Tigathoe's Magic Marker, Tigathoe's Kiowa II, and Tigathoe's Tonga). Also, from the same litter were 2 *** dogs (Jicarilla & Misty Morning) and one ** (Tonka). There has not been any other litter in Goldens that produced this many FC-AFCs. Both Quar and sister, Chick, finished their FC-AFC titles by the time they were 4 years old; Quar just before he turned 4.
Referring to k9data, it appears that Elmer had sired 2 other litters in 1969, 2 in 1970, and 1 earlier in 1971. k9data shows a total of 20 Elmer litters (including the 2 mother Chick litters). None of Elmer's other litters approached the level of his combo with mother Chick. Only one other litter is shown for mother Chick (gets confusing since dam and one of the daughters both were called Chick)
Elmer had "near normal" hips per OFA. Today that would be "borderline". Torch indicated that she did not breed him until after he had all his titles. At that point, she believed it was worth seeing how he would produce.
Judy Rasmusson provided these statistics for the article: (as of April 2009)
Tigathoe's Magic Marker is still the #1 Golden female with combined Open & Amateur points total: 117 She is #8 among all Goldens. She is #5 in Amateur points earned, 78.
Tigathoe's Tonga is #15 with 90-1/2 points. He is #9 in Amateur pts, 69-1/2
Tigathoe's Kiowa II is # 29 with 68 points. He is #12 in Amateur pts, 56-1/2
Tigathoe's Funky Farquar is #42 with 51 points. He wass Top Derby Dog in 1971 (all breeds) w/51 points; and #3 in the list of Top Derby pointed Goldens.
None of these owners had ever placed a dog in licensed trials prior to owning these dogs. (quoting Pat Sadler in the article) They did get assistance from experienced trialers and pros. Tonga's owner, Ray Earnest (that's a lady), mentions Louise Belmont, Mike Paterno, Torch Flinn, and Billy Voigt. Chick's owner, Joe Wattleworth, also mentions Billy Voigt & Jim Weitzel. I remember Pat mentioning Jay Sweezey always being supportive.
Indeed, since the 70s, field trial tests have become ever more challenging. However, field trials weren't "easy" even back then; and the training techniques were in the early stages of transitioning more widely to the e-collar. Dottie Mikeska mentions that she did not start handling until after Quar turned 2. Five months later he was QAA, with four placements in 7 trials. Still remarkable, even if the tests were easier then. And Labs dominated in field trials then, just as they do now. When Magic Marker finished her AFC, Joe Wattleworth's comment was, "When you've got 'a good' Golden, black is only the cloud of dust left behind."
All four stories told by the owners in the article have a recurring theme of the intelligence, natural ability, and cooperativeness of these four dogs. With those traits as a foundation, one can't help but wonder if, with today's training techniques, they could still be Goldens any one of us would be very happy to own. I can think of at least four people who would.
For those who may not know, the breeding of Tigathoe's Chickasaw & FC-AFC-CFC Bonnie Brooks Elmer was done 2X. Nothing much, it appears, came from the first breeding in 1969. The 2nd litter was whelped in Nov. 1971. That litter produced 4 FC-AFCs, one of those being Dual CH Quar. (Tigathoe's Funky Farquar, Tigathoe's Magic Marker, Tigathoe's Kiowa II, and Tigathoe's Tonga). Also, from the same litter were 2 *** dogs (Jicarilla & Misty Morning) and one ** (Tonka). There has not been any other litter in Goldens that produced this many FC-AFCs. Both Quar and sister, Chick, finished their FC-AFC titles by the time they were 4 years old; Quar just before he turned 4.
Referring to k9data, it appears that Elmer had sired 2 other litters in 1969, 2 in 1970, and 1 earlier in 1971. k9data shows a total of 20 Elmer litters (including the 2 mother Chick litters). None of Elmer's other litters approached the level of his combo with mother Chick. Only one other litter is shown for mother Chick (gets confusing since dam and one of the daughters both were called Chick)
Elmer had "near normal" hips per OFA. Today that would be "borderline". Torch indicated that she did not breed him until after he had all his titles. At that point, she believed it was worth seeing how he would produce.
Judy Rasmusson provided these statistics for the article: (as of April 2009)
Tigathoe's Magic Marker is still the #1 Golden female with combined Open & Amateur points total: 117 She is #8 among all Goldens. She is #5 in Amateur points earned, 78.
Tigathoe's Tonga is #15 with 90-1/2 points. He is #9 in Amateur pts, 69-1/2
Tigathoe's Kiowa II is # 29 with 68 points. He is #12 in Amateur pts, 56-1/2
Tigathoe's Funky Farquar is #42 with 51 points. He wass Top Derby Dog in 1971 (all breeds) w/51 points; and #3 in the list of Top Derby pointed Goldens.
None of these owners had ever placed a dog in licensed trials prior to owning these dogs. (quoting Pat Sadler in the article) They did get assistance from experienced trialers and pros. Tonga's owner, Ray Earnest (that's a lady), mentions Louise Belmont, Mike Paterno, Torch Flinn, and Billy Voigt. Chick's owner, Joe Wattleworth, also mentions Billy Voigt & Jim Weitzel. I remember Pat mentioning Jay Sweezey always being supportive.
Indeed, since the 70s, field trial tests have become ever more challenging. However, field trials weren't "easy" even back then; and the training techniques were in the early stages of transitioning more widely to the e-collar. Dottie Mikeska mentions that she did not start handling until after Quar turned 2. Five months later he was QAA, with four placements in 7 trials. Still remarkable, even if the tests were easier then. And Labs dominated in field trials then, just as they do now. When Magic Marker finished her AFC, Joe Wattleworth's comment was, "When you've got 'a good' Golden, black is only the cloud of dust left behind."
All four stories told by the owners in the article have a recurring theme of the intelligence, natural ability, and cooperativeness of these four dogs. With those traits as a foundation, one can't help but wonder if, with today's training techniques, they could still be Goldens any one of us would be very happy to own. I can think of at least four people who would.
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Having not read the article, I do not know who is misinformed. Maybe the AKC’s stud book is incorrect.
However form research I did some years back I recall that Click was bred to Elmer 4 times, twice in 1969 and twice in 1971. The litter whelped on 2/10/71 included Tonga and Click (Magic Marker). The litter whelped 11/11/71 included Ki and Quar.
With four FC AFC progney out of four litters the Elmer x Click mating was still one of the best all time for field trial Golden Retrievers so really no need to exaggerate.
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Jim, you are absolutely correct. My "senior" eyes missed that Tonga and Chick had earlier birthdays in the same year as Quar and Ki. As I typed it, I was thinking that I had remembered two litters being involved in those 4 dogs. I should have listened to my "little voice" and re-checked the dates.
K9data has only one offspring listed for 12/7/69 (the female named Tigathoe's Kiowa). Could you possibly add the other information to k9data?
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This current GRCA field issue is the best I have seen by far, and to me, the combined story of "The Tigathoe Four" is the best of the lot. What a great breeding. Like you Gerry, I also picked up on the "team player" aspect of each dog, especially since all four owners were relative field trial newbies. Each owner points out that special relationship they had with their dog, and how much their dog wanted to please them. That close relationship is the number one advantage an amateur owner-trainer has over Pro truck run dogs.
John
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I also remember another good breeding that produced well.
Bred also 4 x I believe.
11/6/1980, 3/28/1983, 5/15/1984, 12/14/1985.
This produced :
Numerous XX Goldens
10 XXX,
3 FC/AFC including Zap ,Ziggy, and Mo(2X National Open Finalist)
3 FTCH/AFTCH including Kipp, Buddy ( Can OTCH as well) and Can. National Amat. Winner Razz.
Sue
Bred also 4 x I believe.
11/6/1980, 3/28/1983, 5/15/1984, 12/14/1985.
This produced :
Numerous XX Goldens
10 XXX,
3 FC/AFC including Zap ,Ziggy, and Mo(2X National Open Finalist)
3 FTCH/AFTCH including Kipp, Buddy ( Can OTCH as well) and Can. National Amat. Winner Razz.
Sue
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Some years ago Jim Drager wrote an article for the News that focused on that very thing.
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Does GRCC also have a News? It would be interesting to have a similar article that parallels the Tigathoe 4 from our northern neighbors!
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5,113 Posts
From my fading memory...
To show two paths....FC-AFC Bonnie Brooks Red had more all age points than did FC-AFC Bonnie Brooks Elmer. However, Elmer was with Torch who bred and Red was with Harold Bruninga who only kept males and basically only allowed his dog to stand at stud when he was searching for another dog.
A name I've not seen mentioned in all of this is Richard Kerns. Search K9Data for "Bonnie Brooks" (not "Bonniebrooks") and look at what he produced...including Elmer and Red. I understand that one day Mr. Kerns simply decided he'd done enough with dogs and took up sailing or somesuch.
Eric
To show two paths....FC-AFC Bonnie Brooks Red had more all age points than did FC-AFC Bonnie Brooks Elmer. However, Elmer was with Torch who bred and Red was with Harold Bruninga who only kept males and basically only allowed his dog to stand at stud when he was searching for another dog.
A name I've not seen mentioned in all of this is Richard Kerns. Search K9Data for "Bonnie Brooks" (not "Bonniebrooks") and look at what he produced...including Elmer and Red. I understand that one day Mr. Kerns simply decided he'd done enough with dogs and took up sailing or somesuch.
Eric
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We have the Golden Leaves--a much smaller and less glamourous publication--and now in digital format only. But you have given me a good idea for a field column article. Going to have to look into talking to Messrs. Glenn and Bischke about those dogs!
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I can't speak to what Harold B. did back when he had "Red"(Bonnie Brooks Red). But I was around when he was trialing Dandy Boy Red and AFC Little Fever.
I bred my Zap bitch to Dandy and he didn't keep a puppy .
I think that the most successful breeding to one of Harold's males was when Carma Futhy bred "Joy" to Bonnie Brooks Red.
http://www.k9data.com/offspring.asp?ID=15812
Harold was one in a million. He loved his Goldens. He did all the training himself.
Always named his Goldens something "Red". Except Little Fever. I asked him about that one time. He just said that he ran out of names
Sue
I bred my Zap bitch to Dandy and he didn't keep a puppy .
I think that the most successful breeding to one of Harold's males was when Carma Futhy bred "Joy" to Bonnie Brooks Red.
http://www.k9data.com/offspring.asp?ID=15812
Harold was one in a million. He loved his Goldens. He did all the training himself.
Always named his Goldens something "Red". Except Little Fever. I asked him about that one time. He just said that he ran out of names
Sue
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I am loving all this "Goldens of the past" talk. Keep it up. A lot of you have so much information that needs to be shared.
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http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=620
What a beautiful head of a Golden. Now I know where my Ginger got her looks.
Sue
What a beautiful head of a Golden. Now I know where my Ginger got her looks.
Sue
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5,113 Posts
Sue-
Harold wouldn't necessarily keep a puppy out of each breeding. When he was looking to add a male, he'd entertain offers and see what was produced and then pass or pick.
I bred to Sangamo Red once and got nothing. He offered to repeat the breeding but said that he wasn't interested in a puppy anymore. The breeding was to a bitch I had that was out of a MH/MHR/HRCh bitch and sired by Smoke'N Red Apache.
Eric
Harold wouldn't necessarily keep a puppy out of each breeding. When he was looking to add a male, he'd entertain offers and see what was produced and then pass or pick.
I bred to Sangamo Red once and got nothing. He offered to repeat the breeding but said that he wasn't interested in a puppy anymore. The breeding was to a bitch I had that was out of a MH/MHR/HRCh bitch and sired by Smoke'N Red Apache.
Eric
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Yes Eric that would make more sense cus he knows his own pooches.
right?
I also didn't nessessarily get what I wanted either when I bred to Dandy but it takes 2 to tanglo.
Ginger always seemed to find the weaknesses in all the males I bred her to.
I called her my weakest link. and had her spayed than continued to trial her.
Sue
right?
I also didn't nessessarily get what I wanted either when I bred to Dandy but it takes 2 to tanglo.
Ginger always seemed to find the weaknesses in all the males I bred her to.
I called her my weakest link.
and had her spayed than continued to trial her.Sue
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I asked Pat about the Chick/Elmer breedings. This is what she recalls of Chick's litters:
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Seriously, after the 1998 Year book was published the show folks took the field trial stats job away form Edwina and changed the format to worthless clutter. Given that Eli was post 1998 the Year Books are of no value. Other than contacting Eli's owner, the place I would suggest you look is to go to the AKC website, register if not already registered, go to the on line store, dog lookup then point progression.
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Jim Pickering
I just wanted to clear up something about the GRCA yearbook and the staff, at least up to the 2007 yearbooks, the last one produced on a DVD.
All of the Goldens who have placed or JAM'd in a licensed field trial are all listed in the Field Dog section under "Field Trial Placements". So all of the stats can be taken from there. The dogs are listed alphabetically so it is easier than in the older printed yearbooks that went chronologically.
It is a shame that not enough people bought the DVDs so the yearbook committee decided not to keep producing them.
Ann
__________________
Jim Pickering
I just wanted to clear up something about the GRCA yearbook and the staff, at least up to the 2007 yearbooks, the last one produced on a DVD.
All of the Goldens who have placed or JAM'd in a licensed field trial are all listed in the Field Dog section under "Field Trial Placements". So all of the stats can be taken from there. The dogs are listed alphabetically so it is easier than in the older printed yearbooks that went chronologically.
It is a shame that not enough people bought the DVDs so the yearbook committee decided not to keep producing them.
Ann
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One of the many interesting things about the marvelous Nitro is he has a Curly Coated Retriever "Rajah" as an ancestor. Rajah's sire TIVERTON BEST LAD is one of the most famous curly coated retrievers in history.
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