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Chris Atkinson

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
http://m.billingsgazette.com/mobile/article_daf2bdea-3e2e-5724-98d8-28b1c9ec1202.html

Please feel free to read this publicy available news article.

Many of us know of, or personally know the folks involved.

The original thread was removed for several reasons.

Please avoid the "sophomoric humor" making fun of these guys' names. Please avoid posting your searches on the financial status of these folks.

These people are members of the small community that is the retriever world. It is really a bummer.

Thanks, Chris
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Thanks Paul,

I live in a very small town and have for the last 9 years. I regularly get reminders of just how small the town is when I learn who is related to whom, or who knows whom.

I get regular reminders, as a result of this smalltown environment to be mindful of what I say and do.

I think this is analogous to what happens within the online culture of RTF when longtime professional retriever trainers have something like this happen.

So again folks, before you post something thinking you're "cute" or funny....think about how you would like it if others posted those things about someone and it negatively affected you or yours.

Thanks, Chris
 
#4 ·
Chris Atkinson said:
Thanks Paul,

I live in a very small town and have for the last 9 years. I regularly get reminders of just how small the town is when I learn who is related to whom, or who knows whom.

I get regular reminders, as a result of this smalltown environment to be mindful of what I say and do.

I think this is analogous to what happens within the online culture of RTF when longtime professional retriever trainers have something like this happen.

So again folks, before you post something thinking you're "cute" or funny....think about how you would like it if others posted those things about someone and it negatively affected you or yours.

Thanks, Chris
Click to expand...
I grew up in a small town and live in a small town now. Course its close to a big town but the point is, I get those same reminders. Stupid reminders, when will I learn....

/Paul
 
#5 ·
Well all I can say is that they were wrong, got caught and got what they deserved.
 
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#6 ·
Well all I can say is that they were wrong, got caught and got what they deserved.
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Spot on.

I'd like to think I have a humanitarian approach to life and the human condition, bundled up with a sense of fun, but if someone seeks to live by crime the mask drops and I don't care whose friends they are.

These guys chose to make money, a lot of it, through criminal conspiracy and a betrayal of sporting ethics. They got caught and were punished appropriately. I have no sympathy for them; if they suffer social exclusion, public opprobrium and get mocked, so be it. All those things come with the territory of being a criminal, along with the untaxed profits they were so keen on making.

If their friends and family are shamed and inconvenienced, then no one is to blame but them.

Eug
 
#7 ·
Punishment here was not severe enough. For 5 years of poaching how one only receive a fine of $8K a year and the other $4K a year?

I have no soft spot in my heart for illegal poachers. They weren't even fined as much money as they likely made per year "guiding poaching" trips.

They got caught but, in my mind got off way to easy.
 
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#8 ·
Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:
Punishment here was not severe enough. For 5 years of poaching how one only receive a fine of $8K a year and the other $4K a year?

I have no soft spot in my heart for illegal poachers. They weren't even fined as much money as they likely made per year "guiding poaching" trips.

They got caught but, in my mind got off way to easy.
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I agree they got off way to easy with the fines, but then again others do the same and do not lose their hunting privaleges for life either.
 
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#9 ·
Jason Glavich said:
I agree they got off way to easy with the fines, but then again others do the same and do not lose their hunting privaleges for life either.
Click to expand...

Big game violations in Washington State usually do.

Guys like Foiles got off easier because it was small game/migratory birds....not hooves and horns.
 
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#10 ·
Known them both for years.How sad that it really doesn't stop with just the fines ( too bad not more for them).The repercussions to family and friends when someone does wrong is long lasting.
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
Colonel Blimp said:
Spot on.

I'd like to think I have a humanitarian approach to life and the human condition, bundled up with a sense of fun, but if someone seeks to live by crime the mask drops and I don't care whose friends they are.

These guys chose to make money, a lot of it, through criminal conspiracy and a betrayal of sporting ethics. They got caught and were punished appropriately. I have no sympathy for them; if they suffer social exclusion, public opprobrium and get mocked, so be it. All those things come with the territory of being a criminal, along with the untaxed profits they were so keen on making.

If their friends and family are shamed and inconvenienced, then no one is to blame but them.

Eug
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Eug, maybe if one of your relatives broke some laws, and some folks wrote some hateful things you may feel a bit differently.

I don't know.

I do know that some things were posted in the original thread that were not in line with the well-being or the best interests of RTF the resource.

Whether folks like it or not, the true purpose of RTF is to benefit and share for the retriever community. When folks start wanting to use the resource to be hateful, spiteful, or just plain make silly sophomoric jokes, and it starts to feel like it may negatively impact the well-being of RTF, I may need to take some actions to bring it back in line.

RTF is not here to take the place of the U.S. or state Legal systems. Those legal systems have already had many man hours of investigation and effort apparently come to culmination for some of the violations and folks involved.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
It is interesting to see the private messages that have been coming in.

I have everything from folks thanking me for pulling the original thread, to one person alleging that I support game law violations, or that I think it is a bummer that someone got caught.

I'll tell you all one of my original big bummers about this deal: I remember being a new retriever guy in 1987, with my very first personal retriever that was all my own in my very first personal home that was all my own. I remember reading about the folks in the article linked today and idolizing them. This was in the original NAHRA News magazine, where these folks' activities and accomplishments were a staple.

What's a bummer is finding out that folks that I idolized turned out to do some pretty crummy stuff.

My very first book report I ever did was on Orenthal James Simpson. My very first NFL logo winter stocking cap came from the J.C. Penny catalogue. It was a Buffalo Bill hat in blue and red. The buffalo had four vertical legs and was standing upright back then. That idol also turned out to do stuff that was a big bummer.

Before those of you who think I'm trying to protect outlaws jump to conclusions, please think about RTF as a resource and whether or not I should sit idly on the sidelines watching the its future be jeopardized by hateful comments that in the end, change absolutely nothing about the legal process and the impact on these people.

This whole thing is a bummer.

I think it is a bummer that someone wants to find it offensive that I find this hole thing a bummer.

Chris
 
#13 ·
Chris Atkinson said:
Eug, maybe if one of your relatives broke some laws, and some folks wrote some hateful things you may feel a bit differently.

I don't know.

I do know that some things were posted in the original thread that were not in line with the well-being or the best interests of RTF the resource.

Whether folks like it or not, the true purpose of RTF is to benefit and share for the retriever community. When folks start wanting to use the resource to be hateful, spiteful, or just plain make silly sophomoric jokes, and it starts to feel like it may negatively impact the well-being of RTF, I may need to take some actions to bring it back in line.

RTF is not here to take the place of the U.S. or state Legal systems. Those legal systems have already had many man hours of investigation and effort apparently come to culmination for some of the violations and folks involved.
Click to expand...

My Cousin got a DUI a couple years ago. Nobody in the family was nice to him about that or let him forget about it when they'd see him have a beer after his probation was over. I can't think of anyone in the family who was nice to him about it? We made sophomoric jokes to his face, embarrassed him just like family is supposed to do when you do something really stupid.
 
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Discussion starter · #14 ·
Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:
My Cousin got a DUI a couple years ago. Nobody in the family was nice to him about that or let him forget about it when they'd see him have a beer after his probation was over. I can't think of anyone in the family who was nice to him about it? We made sophomoric jokes to his face, embarrassed him just like family is supposed to do when you do something really stupid.
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I don't see what that has to do with what I wrote to Eug.

If you had a cousin that broke a law, and strangers posting under alias handles made fun of your cousin's (and perhaps your name) and folks started posting alleged financial information on the internet in an attempt to make your family look bad, you may feel differently.

I have two little boys at home who argue, poke and prod each other daily. If a kid on the bus does that to either one of the brothers, the other brother is going to stick up for him.
 
#16 ·
Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:
My Cousin got a DUI a couple years ago. Nobody in the family was nice to him about that or let him forget about it when they'd see him have a beer after his probation was over. I can't think of anyone in the family who was nice to him about it? We made sophomoric jokes to his face, embarrassed him just like family is supposed to do when you do something really stupid.
Click to expand...
Family is "supposed" to make fun of each other when they've done something seriously wrong? My, what a Christian thing to do! I'm glad I'm not part of your family.
 
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#17 ·
My question is regarding the AKC status of the person found guilty in a federal court of 4 misdemeanors for poaching.

His hunting license was pulled for life, but the judge allowed him to have a shotgun for his hunting-dog training business.

This person is a pro handler who handles clients' dogs in AKC licensed hunt tests for a fee.
Because of his conviction, would his AKC privileges (handling dogs in AKC events) be pulled by AKC?

I didn't ask "should" his AKC privileges be suspended as I am not asking for personal opinions.

I am asking WOULD the AKC suspend his handling dogs in AKC events? I am thinking that they would (or will) because of AKC's unsportsmanlike conduct rules.

Helen
 
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#18 ·
unfortunately the retriever community is not immune or void of nefarious characters, we would like to think so, but that is just not reality..those in question had their day in court and afforded due process..now comes the court of public opinion, which at times is more severe and not as lenient as the judicial system
 
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#19 ·
helencalif said:
My question is regarding the AKC status of the person found guilty in a federal court of 4 misdemeanors for poaching.

His hunting license was pulled for life, but the judge allowed him to have a shotgun for his hunting-dog training business.

This person is a pro handler who handles clients' dogs in AKC licensed hunt tests for a fee.
Because of his conviction, would his AKC privileges (handling dogs in AKC events) be pulled by AKC?

I didn't ask "should" his AKC privileges be suspended as I am not asking for personal opinions.

I am asking WOULD the AKC suspend his handling dogs in AKC events? I am thinking that they would (or will) because of AKC's unsportsmanlike conduct rules.

Helen
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Here's one for ya Helen. ODFW just implemented new dog training rules requiring anyone using live birds to have valid hunting license. So he now has a shotgun but can't shoot birds because he can't have a hunting license. Hows that for ironic...

/Paul
 
#20 ·
BonMallari said:
unfortunately the retriever community is not immune or void of nefarious characters, we would like to think so, but that is just not reality..those in question had their day in court and afforded due process..now comes the court of public opinion, which at times is more severe and not as lenient as the judicial system
Click to expand...
Ya you ain't kidding. I haven't seen him at a HT or FT in 8 months...

/Paul
 
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