Got a trainer/training question for everyone. I'm looking into sending my first dog off to a professional trainer and have a question about it. I've been told by friends who have sent there dogs off, to check with the trainers about how many personal dogs they train on a daily basis. So my question is, how many personal dogs do you think a professional trainer should have at a max before I need to worry if my dog is going to get the quality training time i'm paying for. Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks
Trainer Question
mikens12gauge
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278 Posts
Agreed, I bust my ass everyday with no paid help. I have less than 10 dogs so I have plenty of people that come out and throw birds. I help them, they help me..I don't like to many cooks in the kitchen.. You get over 14 dogs and you start to the point where you have to have help. I let my clients run my personal dogs in training for the practice and to give them more time at the line.
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12,852 Posts
Thank goodness!!! I do not think this is by design but rather necessity, there are simply not enough hours in the day to train 20-30 dogs on land marks, water marks, and 2 blinds, land and water. When our amateur group has 10 we work hard to get 3-4 tests done in one training day.
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43 Posts
I have a quick thought to your question; have you made a list of all the things you wish to have your dog do? Are you wanting a HRCH or a gun dog or a filed trial dog? I feel it is important to have a list of goals for your dog and trainer to complete. This should allow both owner and trainer to gauge progress toward the finished goal as well as get a committment from the trainer . So many people just bring the dog to a trainer and say train it! Train it to do what?
Make your list, then interview the trainers that are willing to attempt your goal, then ask to see dogs he has trained or are training now that meets your goal requirements. This will give you an idea of cost, time , and reality.
Good luck
Make your list, then interview the trainers that are willing to attempt your goal, then ask to see dogs he has trained or are training now that meets your goal requirements. This will give you an idea of cost, time , and reality.
Good luck
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1,378 Posts
Just talked to the pro, they are in upper MI and training 6 days per week.
They started at 7:30 am and were just coming back to the kennell at 6:30 pm.
It's no dream world it's the reality of winning, not passing a test.
Their record speaks for it self, I'm not sure you understand the level at which these dogs run?
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5,856 Posts
24 dogs and 2 trainers?? That is not the norm.. That's a luxury... An extravagant luxury that isn't even close to the reality of this business...I don't get this. We routinely run 2 AA setups with 24 and on the winter trip, where all we have to do is train, we usually get in 3. (yes, it's a long day)
Now, that's with 2 trainers alternating at the line so there's not much time wasted. Some days the young guys will be doing yard work for a while or maybe running their own setup or a marking drill, but usually they're on the same setup just running it differently (not the puppies, of course). If you've done your homework at the end of yesterday, and checked the weather, you can hit the ground running without a lot of head-scratching in the AM and you know where you're moving to for the next setup, etc, etc.
The BSing gets done over a brewski in the evening. ;-) That's how we roll.
JS
Edit for Angie ;-) :
Several in each National each year, finalists the last several years, high-point Amateur dog a year ago, impressive weekend record. Just sayin' ...
Angie
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1,378 Posts
20 at $800.00 per month plus birds, trials and travel.
If they have access to the dirt they do OK.
Gregg Leonard
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They aren't making it when you crunch the numbers. Not by a long shot. Guess they have no kids or debt?? Like I said,, a significant other can make things work out rather nicely..
Angie
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1,378 Posts
Onaway this week and south to Fenwick next week.
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5,252 Posts
"Just talked to the pro, they are in upper MI and training 6 days per week."
Didn't say UP, just upper Michigan. Can't get much further upper than Onoway without a boat. Maybe he should have said Northern MI?
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175 Posts
You sound like a dog trainer. Whinning because they don't make enough. That is $16,000 a month, that is almost 200k a year. IF you can't make a nice living on that, then maybe you need some finance lessons.
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5,252 Posts
Looks like your post is directed at someone other than the RTFer that you quoted. golfandhunter is saying the same thing you are.
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175 Posts
Sorry you are correct, you can see by my post count that I am not an expert. And Al is one of the hardest working trainers I know...
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7,788 Posts
Here are some of the expenses that trainers incur:
Salary for trainer
Salary for asst trainers
Bird Boys pay
Gasoline and maintenance on truck (tires, tuneups, batteries, insurance, etc)
Gasoline and maintenance for 4 whlr
Maintenance on dog trailer
Shells, ecollars, heeling sticks, blanks
Leads, collars, etc.
Shotguns, blank pistols
Bumper Boys (initial purchase plus maintenance)
Zinger Wingers (initial purchase plus maintenance)
Purchase of Truck
Purchase of 4 whlr
Purchase of Dog Box on Truck
Purchase of Dog Trailer
Contruction of Kennel
Maintenance of kennel
Kennel help
Dog Food
Construction and maintenance of pigeon coop and duck pen
Construction of ponds and maintenance
Mowing of training grounds
Any lease fees for training areas (like Ackermans)
Business Taxes
Property Taxes
Deliquent Training Fees (collection fees)
Eating training fees not paid by deadbeats
Food for pigeons and ducks
Utilities
Barns and sheds for storage of equipment
Liability and kennel insurance
Bumpers
Cost of living at alternate location (either up north or down south)
While some of the items are one time purchases you would normally depreciate them over a period of time say 5-10 yrs.
What I have left out?
Edited for comments that I received.
Salary for trainer
Salary for asst trainers
Bird Boys pay
Gasoline and maintenance on truck (tires, tuneups, batteries, insurance, etc)
Gasoline and maintenance for 4 whlr
Maintenance on dog trailer
Shells, ecollars, heeling sticks, blanks
Leads, collars, etc.
Shotguns, blank pistols
Bumper Boys (initial purchase plus maintenance)
Zinger Wingers (initial purchase plus maintenance)
Purchase of Truck
Purchase of 4 whlr
Purchase of Dog Box on Truck
Purchase of Dog Trailer
Contruction of Kennel
Maintenance of kennel
Kennel help
Dog Food
Construction and maintenance of pigeon coop and duck pen
Construction of ponds and maintenance
Mowing of training grounds
Any lease fees for training areas (like Ackermans)
Business Taxes
Property Taxes
Deliquent Training Fees (collection fees)
Eating training fees not paid by deadbeats
Food for pigeons and ducks
Utilities
Barns and sheds for storage of equipment
Liability and kennel insurance
Bumpers
Cost of living at alternate location (either up north or down south)
While some of the items are one time purchases you would normally depreciate them over a period of time say 5-10 yrs.
What I have left out?
Edited for comments that I received.
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1,081 Posts
I really dont care how many setups are run. I want to see results! Just because they throw 8 marks a day and run three setups and up at sunrise and work till dark doesnt always equate to Quality training. I want quality, not quantity when it comes to training.
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5,252 Posts
Can't include house payment. We all have house payments whether we train dogs or not.
Shouldn't include trips to vet as these should be passed on to client.
Utilities only to the extent related to the training operation and not the household.
I didn't see bumpers on the list.
Bird expense. Although if you are charging clients for 2 flyers a week, this cost should be passed to the client as well.
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5,252 Posts
Having well-heeled clients buying property and building ponds would be a great thing wouldn't it.
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I am not sure but I am always amazed at how *inexpensive* professional training is given the costs and investment involved. Add in the work, the travel (esp for FT pros) and I wonder why anyone wants to do it.
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