I am not going to say it's an "easy" fix, but one that I bet a ton of newer trainers experience. Assuming the dog is collar conditioned, you have your best tool right there. Have them sit next to you in a holding blind, and wait. Have a helper make noise in the distance like a simulated event (quacks, gun fire, hey hey hey, ect). If the dog moves, "nick", and don't make it light. It's the same concept as if the dog broke from your side. Again, this is all based on the fact that the dog is thoroughly collar conditioned. Make it a zero tolerance issue, and you can solve this subjectively fast.

 

Welcome to the forum. You're wise to join a retriever club. Since line manners are a common problem, I'm sure folks in the club will have lots of suggestions for you. Since he's been like this (presumably) for 6 years... there aren't any quick fixes. When you have enough posts you'll be able to get private messages. But there are lots of things you can do to begin to modify his behavior somewhat.

 

Fortunately this club is pretty strong in regards to the members and pros available for help. I know it's a long road ahead but I feel confident I have the resources available.

Dog is collar conditioned, stern corrections during training day is on the checklist.

 

I too have a fire breather.
Worst thing we can do is let them get the bird after that unruly scene in the holding blind.

 

Its wired because his behavior in the house and the duck blind is great.

I was very shocked that morning lol.

 

Is there a way to recreate the excitement that the test brings in order to get opportunities to make corrections? I was not happy about my dogs behavior getting to the line recently and have been trying to recreate that level of excitement but have not found a way to recreate the situation in order to deal with it.

 

I don't think you can necessarily re-create it, but live flyers shot at < 20 yds, live shackled ducks surprise launched from a winger positioned behind the dog/line and shooting the HRC primer loads 3x at the shackled duck flopping/quacking the ground just in front of the dog should get a response from the dog and give you an opportunity to correct.

 

Austin,
I personally, along with a ton of others I train with, went through the same thing. Calm in the blind, calm for hours in a duck boat, mild in training, and then BOOM! And I would not ever classify my Lab as a high-energy dog either. But, we worked on it, and made it a priority to fix. Based on my experiences, and those I train with, a test can be over before you get to the line if you are dealing with a dog that seems to be out of control (ask me how I know). Don't worry though, if you follow a good plan to fix the problem (collar), you will fix that problem, and can focus on other things, like helping the dog count to three.

 

To the OP, THE DAMAGE WAS DONE MUCH EARLIER THAN 18 MONTHS OF AGE. Now, through no fault of your own, you have a difficult task.

Many, if not most people wait too long to start basic obedience training with their pups. Especially (but not limited to) dogs out of "loaded" pedigrees (GRHRCH, FC/AFC, MNH,GMHR, etc.)

I will never understand the reluctance to do so. Instead, they wait until they have a half-grown monster which has had hundreds of marks thrown for them EVEN IF OUT OF CONTROL at the line! Guess what? The dog has ALREADY formed seriously bad habits which now have to be trained out of the dog using methods that are not fun for the dog nor the trainer. It's just not fair to lower the boom on them for a fault that you have trained in by NOT training.

I have heard the argument that the owner of these animated, talented dogs "didn't want to take the retrieving desire out of them" SOOOO many times.... News flash- It's almost impossible to do so short of abusing the Pup. And I don't think anyone on this forum wants to be abusive towards their dog(s).

Please, please, please! If you want to own one of these dogs, exercise due diligence and start gentle obedience training around 3 months of age, gradually tightening the standard as they learn their lessons. and never stop enforcing and reinforcing an acceptable level of obedience. The road will be much smoother to the destination.-Paul

 

If there was a newbie section on the forum the above post by Paul would absolutely need to be a sticky! Very good advice and happens way to often!

 

I would carefully re-think the idea that a collar will simply solve the problem. Think in terms of conditioned responses.
Once he "discovers" no collar at the real line...all bets are off.

 

Yes, you are correct. I didn't mean to imply I think the collar is the end all, be all solution.

 

In hindsight I wish I would have scratched him right then but I didn't. When we finally got to the line he ran the test perfect.

Gather you know that scratch would have been worth ever so much more than the ribbon, but an awful lot of new testers seem to hope they can muddle through the seeds of future miseries for the sake of a pass. So I wanted to repeat your observation.

Regardless, and given the dog's otherwise good manners, it may still be something fairly readily worked through during group training days, which I'm guessing Pup hasn't seen much of and may be similarly excited by. Best of luck with it.

 

*This turned out to be a longer post than expected. Most here will probably read and say "duh" but I think it'll be helpful for newer dog trainers, so hopefully someone learns something.

I have a big black lab, 87lbs, that'll be 6 next month. He was trained by my father and went 4/4 on HRC started tests between the age of 18 months and 2 years. I had heard he was a handful but my young brother was the handler so I wasn't sure where the real issue was. Well due to job changes with my parents their living situation changed and 2 years in an apartment wouldn't be fair to the dog. My dad decided he should come live with me since I do the most hunting. That was about 18 months ago. I didn't work on any real training in regards to hunt tests, just hunted really.

Well I decided I was going to get into the HRC club he was a member of this year and help this dog reach his full potential. Sire is a GRHRCH MH QAA and the Dam is a HRCH along with a strong pedigree throughout. So we go to 2 training days, everything is pretty good, I decide to run a started test just to get my feet wet as I've never ran a test before and neither of us are ready to seasoned.

All I can say is wow. What an embarrassing display of obedience. Now I'm a pretty big guy and I basically had no control of my dog. He was pulling on the lead to the point of choking and dry heaving. In the holding blinds he was fighting me to look around the edges, he even tried to get out and get a mark while the dog ahead of us was running the test. In hindsight I wish I would have scratched him right then but I didn't. When we finally got to the line he ran the test perfect.

The point of this post is, if your a new amateur trainer be cautious of being loose with your obedience standards with young dogs during your hunt test or field trials. Because what was let slip with this dog 4 years ago has created a huge issue that is going to take a lot of time and effort for me to correct. The last thing you want to do with your dog is be teaching line manners when you should be working on getting ready for a seasoned test. If this dog gets an HR I feel it'll be the greatest accomplishment of my life lol.

Edited: I figured if I'm going to talk about him the least I could do is post a picture.

I boldened things I cherry picked in your post.. Just read those sentences.... I am not surprised at how the dog reacted at your firsts tests with him.. not at all.. I actually think that's exactly what ou should have expected... VERY COMMON... HRC stated tests don't really have much discipline involved with the tests.. Its all about natural ability.. not much trained ability AT ALL...

So, heres what I think... its just my opinion.. MOST would ignore it...

Before you get all hyped up with the collar,,and creating over exciting situations to mimic a hunt test... Find someone experienced in your club, that really has a good grasp on critiquing the dogs basic obedience... You stated you thought "everthing seemed "pretty Good"

Search here on RTF a thread started by Ted Shih its title is 'sit means sit or does it" read it seveal times. especially what ted says about the discussions he had with his trainer... Between that thread,,and the crituique you receive from the experienced club member,, decide if your dog has ANY obedience in him at all..

maybe all you need,, is to start again with the basics first. Teach obedience, teach the collar,,and then learn how to enforce correctly what you taught..

You can't expect a really good obedient "sit" or any obedience command, if you haven't systematically taught it first.

"Do you really have a good foundation on obedience"?

 

Here is the link of the thread I mentioned above..


http://www.retrievertraining.net/fo...s/showthread.php?8949-Sit-means-Sit-Or-Does-It&highlight=sit+means+sit+ted+shih

 

Would seriously consider Traffic cop by Hillman to help "condition" the dog for obedience. Yes you use the collar but not in a punishment sense.

 

Are you using the collar in the training group and in hunting?

 

The point of this post is, if your a new amateur trainer be cautious of being loose with your obedience standards with young dogs during your hunt test or field trials.

I think this was the main objective of the originators post .
I could be wrong , but I'm sure the 6 year old is not going to make it to the seniors in competition , but I bet it's a great dog.

 

Yes, collar is on during both.

 

The point of this post is, if your a new amateur trainer be cautious of being loose with your obedience standards with young dogs during your hunt test or field trials.

I think this was the main objective of the originators post .
I could be wrong , but I'm sure the 6 year old is not going to make it to the seniors in competition , but I bet it's a great dog.

He's a smart dog and with the resources I have available I'm confident we can be successful at the seasoned level.

We'll see what the pros think at training day though. Unfortunately since our hunt test was this month we won't have a training day until May.

 

I'd rather an obedience issue based off of drive then an issue consisting of lack of desire or confusion.