[Timmay92]

I'm trying to figure out what is the purpose of the continuous repeated commands of sit. My pup is 15 weeks and is very steady when working but I fear this habit would form a dog that requires repeated commands? Also what is the point of nicking the dog repeatedly while already sitting giving the command. I'm interested in the psychology behind this and why it works.

Thanks!

 

[Timmay92]

I guess that's what I'm asking. What does the below level repetitive nick actually do to condition them to sit?

Obviously very new to all this and just trying to learn.

 

[bamajeff]

Low level nicks(usually a med-high 1 or low-med 2 on TT/Garmin) work to condition the dog to a behavior/task they are already doing. The psychology/philosophy is condition them to do the right thing vs correcting them for doing the wrong thing.

Hillmann explans it much better than I do:

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVlvn3FPt4c

 

[KwickLabs]

The same effect can be done with just a leash. Go to any AKC obedience class, When the dog is on a
sit, the lead can be lifted slightly up to cause a negligible tug on the collar. Sit, tug, sit physically re-enforces
the sit command. Once sit is thoroughly condition in this manner, the dog will resit moving even when a
stronger pull to move him is applied.

Pointing dog trainers use a similar approach to re-enforce "whoa". The pointer is set up with a snug collar and
stiff checkcord. When the dog hits a point the "whoa" command is re-enforced by slightly twisting a very stiff
checkcord transferring a small re-enforcing pressure to the dog's neck via a tight collar. This effect is much
more difficult to consistently reproduce than pushing a button on an e-collar.

If you place an e-collar on a pointing dog there is no question most will jump on that application....especially if
it is a Lab. Even if the Lab's natural point is re-enforced via low levels you will most likely be severely "chastised".
Don't ask me how I know this.

Frankly, when finding out what level would work on sit with Pounce (retriever, not a pointing Lab), I could not
feel it. However, her eyes would blink exactly as a cue every time.

Here is a link to a video with a very young pup where slight tugs on the lead are used to re-enforce the sit command.

"Hillmann Training" with Jim Wegner (YouTube)

 

[Bryan Parks]

Have you listened to Hillmann's explanation?

The nicks re-enforce a command they are already doing.

It is somewhat hard to comprehend how and why exactly a low level stim of the e-collar could work in this way but it does.

If you plan to follow his material it is a vital component and he uses the same method throughout his entire program all the way through to advanced dogs.

 

[DarrinGreene]

It's simple classic conditioning of the nick to the command and behavior. Just trust it - Bill knows what he's doing. You'll find a lot of Bill's exercises build on reinforcing the sit behavior of your dog, which makes sense with a retriever given how much and how reliably we want them to sit during their work. You'll need this tool later so don't overlook it.

 

[jerseygirl]

Like Darrin said. Just trust Bill. I had same concern. My first dog I trained and would say sit once and expected her to sit. If she didn’t I would take her back to spot and make her sit again. Was always told to say it once and that was it. Well she became a pretty good water dog but first couple years hunting I had to really work on being steady. That was 15 years ago. So last year I get a puppy out of LB Low Tide Pounder. I followed Hillmann, omg what a steady dog. He is 1 1/2 years old and this was his first season. While hunting, I say sit he sits and that could be for hour or more I’m not kidding. And when shots are fired and even that rare time my partners hit a bird. He won’t budge until I release him. Believe me this was all Hillmann. I’m not that good. Follow the program and u will be satisfied.

 

[DarrinGreene]

Calling the e-collar positive reinforcement while it may be true (it's added to the environment to increase behavior) - it's a bit of a play on words by Bill. He's really using it like a bridge.