i always try to hold the slip lead really tight.;-) this may sound odd but i often take a knee beside my dragon and put the two fingers to the ribs with a shhh to temporarily break the mental state ala ceasar milan.

 

Looking for tips/ideas. I have a 15 month old golden female.. very talented young dog. trains very well. My problem is in the holding blind at a hunt test. She is an absolute demon in the blind. It is all I can do to restrain her.

First, I only have experience with my one dog, and learning from my wife, so.....

Probably need more detail about the issue. What is she doing, where does the problem really start? in the blind, walking to the blind, as soon as the dog comes off the truck?

I found that with my young dog, a little bit of heeling drill before coming on to test grounds helped. Also, taking control as soon as the dog comes off the truck, making them sit, and/or heel immediately. Start a bit early, and if there is a control issue, back on the truck....

My boy got really excited about dinner time, so I enforced control for that event as well. Made him sit, walking heel, under control etc before letting him eat. Find things that get the dog amped, and then make them be in control before they get what they want.

 

I now teach my dogs to sit in the blind with their back to the blind facing me looking out. Make them keep focus on me. Any movement or not paying attention gets a correction. Go to a club training day and you should ba able to work on it there. I ran a dog for a guy once that couldn't make a test and that crazy dog tore down two blinds! Not a fun day.

 

What's she like in the blind training when she can't see you or what is going on? Is she calm then??

I think dogs have problems in holding blinds because we expect them to just sit there and twiddle their paws....when they want to rock and roll!

First, at tests, figure out how much time it is taking for each dog ahead of you to run. Dog takes 5 minutes then their is no reason for you to be in holding blind #4 waiting 20 minutes to get to the line. Get a bird change in there and you could be in a blind for 1/2 hour or more. Make sure the Marshall is well aware of which blind you are suppose to be in and tell them you will be there when you have to be.

I try to go into the second blind from the line. I don't want to be spending anytime in that 3rd or 4th blind.

Keeping the dogs focus on you is paramount as someone has already said. I do obedience. 1/4 turns, down, sit, stand, backwards heeling etc..You can take a bumper into the blind with you. Get the dog to sit and "hold." I know people who take cookies into the blind and get their dogs to do tricks. Shake a paw, "bang your dead", roll over....what ever makes you and your dog tick that will keep her attention on you.

Then you need to proof it BIG TIME...at training days.

Your aiming for your dog to be focused on you when there is a handler and dog standing DIRECTLY on the other side of the blind shooting, yelling, tossing ducks past the blind.....

Good luck.

 

Another topic possibly, but will most marshalls let you skip holding blinds?

 

Nerve plays a big part in holding blind on most people including me and it goes straight down to the dog, this could be one of many distracting things at hunt test.

 

Hey.... are ya'll talking about me? I thought I was the only one who had
to experience this torture....

Sorry, I don't have the solution but I will read every bit of advice here.

 

Don Remein showed me the solution to this problem. (My old choco lab would dismantle a holding blind)
Instead of "heeling" the dog into the blind where it is facing forward in the blind, stop short of the blind and "kennel" the dog into it so that the dog turns around and is facing you.
This simple little change made all the difference in the world.

 

I had a FT pro show me the same thing.
It helped a lot.

 

How do you get a dog that is so hyped getting to the blind that the only way to restrain and "walk" is to have the dog up on its hind legs and rearing?Once the dog is there,tho, it is focused on the task.

I have tried a healing stick, e-collar,moving forward slowly in incriments atempting to acclimate and calm, I've tried getting there and walking away -
basically, I am the person annoying my dog by holding him back.

Thanks.

 

You cannot throw marks for a dog that comes to the line as you describe By doing so you are reinforcing the behavior and will never fix the problem. The dog is telling you that he is willing to accept the correction because he knows he will get the marks in the end.

 

Buy a blind and work on it..... AT HOME! Best piece of equipment I ever bought.......LOL Even fed my dog in it a few times....... I think most young dogs view the holding blind as some form of punishment....... dont know why. Heck, I even brushed my dog behind it several times....... anything you can do to associate the blind with good things...... I think it will help. Good luck!

 

That's what I did. Holding blind just about every time we train. Holding blind in the yard just to make them sit there for a while. I'll even give a treat every once in a while.

 

I will also agree with sitting the dog in the blind, so that he is facing you. I also have found much better success if I am standing a few feet away (and holding the leash), so that it is easier for them to focus on me. If I am standing right on top of him, he has a little bit of a tendency to try and leak over the blind.

If you want to build a cheap blind, instead of buying on, go out and find a camo tarp (I bought one at Northern Tool & Equipment). Then, go buy 3 (or 4) of the electric poles that are used quite often as blind poles. They are plastic and I found them at both Southern States and Tractor Supply for about $2 each. I then cut the tarp in half, used duct tape at the cut seam to seal off, then attached the tarp to the poles (using duct tape any time I needed to make a hole to secure it to the pole with wire ties)

Good luck

 

Looking for tips/ideas. I have a 15 month old golden female.. very talented young dog. trains very well. My problem is in the holding blind at a hunt test. She is an absolute demon in the blind. It is all I can do to restrain her. We set blinds up in training and I can leave her in the bllind alone and she will calmly lay there awaiting her turn...Would appreciate any ideas anyone has, particularly from folks that have experienced the same and have found a cure.
thanks

Dogs are situational learners. This appears to be symptomatic of test-wiseness, which is not at all uncommon. "Test-wise" is just another term for 'situation-wise'. Each distinct situation - tests, trials, hunting, training - contains triggers; sights, sounds, smell, events and so on that give a dog expectations about what will happen there. More often than not, trainers are not especially good about providing those test/trial triggers in their training days. Even when we think we're doing it by calling numbers and "Guns up!", and other things, we still aren't seeing it as a dog would.

Some suggestions

• Stop running tests until spring '11.
• Use holding blinds, preferrably multiple blinds if you can, in each session even if it's drill work.
• By all means, form the habit of kenneling your dog into holding blinds; leaving them there and stepping away a few feet, as you will do at the test also.
• Use the 'Guns up', 'Dog to the line' stuff like a religion.
• Get a Gunz UP CD from Dogs Afield, and play it from the moment you arrive at your training grounds until everything is packed up, and you head for home.

Do all the above like a religion to give your dog steady expectations about her job in any place or time. When you go testing again, be ready to skratch her if she acts up in the holding blind. Change her expectations, rather than fulfill them.

She expects to get her birds anyway right now, which is why she's a monster in the blind. You manage as best you can right now, but then take her on up and run her. She wins this game, and you lose. That has to change.

Evan

 

Very interesting...

We have similar situations with our young girl. She is quiet as a mouse in the car, in her crate, but when we take her out to go to the line whether training or other, she goes nuts! Squawking, pulling, etc. It is a bunch of wasted energy not to mention wears us out too.

Now we did not this year have a ton of opportunities to go to group practices. Which I know we need. She has only run her WC, because we know we need to improve on that. Then MAYBE she would be more settled leaving the blind to go to the line. Once she is at the line, she quiets right down.

So buy a blind, teach her to "kennel" into it and look at us. About that CD... does that really work? I had a thunder phobic dog and the cd's for that did nothing because it was not the sounds scaring her it was the energy (barometric pressure etc). I just think a CD with sounds and no energy with it, wouldn't be realistic. I am willing to buy it if it makes sense. She has heard ducks and guns on TV and only had moderate if any interest. However recently we went to a hunt test, to watch, she was staying in the car, oh she KNEW what was going on when we got there.

Planning our winter home work....

 

Very interesting...

So buy a blind, teach her to "kennel" into it and look at us. About that CD... does that really work? I had a thunder phobic dog and the cd's for that did nothing because it was not the sounds scaring her it was the energy (barometric pressure etc). I just think a CD with sounds and no energy with it, wouldn't be realistic. I am willing to buy it if it makes sense. She has heard ducks and guns on TV and only had moderate if any interest. However recently we went to a hunt test, to watch, she was staying in the car, oh she KNEW what was going on when we got there.

Planning our winter home work....

I'm convinced that particular CD is effective. The main reason is that it's unembelished. Roll those windows down, and you hear birds chirping, people just talking, leading dogs by, guns in the background at various distances. It's just what you'll hear at a trial or test, and nothing else. And that's what makes it work.

Evan

 

Envy can be very impatient as well, but what has helped quiet her is to give her more responsibility. I put her in a Down/Stay and actually turn my back and walk a couple steps away. I don't make eye contact w/ her as mine seem to get more worked up if i do.

I too try not to put her in the blinds until we can zip up to #2. Anne

 

From what you described, you have my dog! Best thing you did was stop running test... I did not. Test wise dog... Can't re-create a test in training... Only does this at TEST, right? Training is fine? You are going to have to spend some money... Enter a test. When you get in the blind and the dog acts up, rope em! take em back to the truck and deny any birds or running the test. I feel your pain. The other thing I did was went down to tractor supply and bought a Power Mite Cattle Prod. Put it in my pocket everywhere I go except a test of course. He thinks it's there all the time... He starts acting up a bit I shove my hand in my left pants pocket real fast and he straightens right up! Good Luck.

 

I feel your pain, I have the same issue with my 2.5 yr.old female lab. We are one leg away from a Senior title and it has not improved since Jr. testing last spring. She will yip and whine, peek under or try to climb over a holding blind.....only at a test.
What I have found helpful is to try and calm myself as much as possible, I try not to get her into blind too far, put her in a down and kneel beside her. She seems to be calmer if I am not standing and watching the working. Keeping my attention on her with belly rubs, and using a calm soothing tone helped a lot at our last test. When she comes out of that last holding blind to the line, she is ALL business and psycho dog has vanished.

 

I also feel your pain, both my 3 and 4 year olds do this as well. Even relaxed between marks and honor while a rebird just to go crazy as the Guns up is hollered again. I will never run another JH, I think this is where it all started. Not mentally ready even if their marking is sound.

 

A Pro made this sugestion to me.

Take dog off the truck as calmly and under control as you can.
Sit means sit.
Sit before the crate door gets opened, sit again, after dog exits the crate and is on the ground.

Walk obediantly to the blind, with strick standards of heel.

Once at the blind place dog with its back to the blind, and sittin looking out at you.

You stand outside the blind on the correct side so that when you command your dog to Heel, it has to come directly to tour leg, not come around you on the outside to the heel position.

All the time the dog is in the blind, Make eye contact with the dog.
With MY dog, the pro thought it would be a good idea to have her in the down position.

When you leave the blind. Remeber you are standing outside it,off to the side, and behind, Command the dog to heel. Dog comes to your leg. Command sit again. You start the speed of Cadence you are going to walk to the line with for a few feet, leaving the dog sitting. Calmly command heel and proceed to line.

Then he told me to practice this regiment at EVERY traingday. Use a holding blind/blinds every time you train, and repete the exact same regiment. Strict standards.

Gooser

P.S. PLEASE!! DONT COME UP AND TALK TO GOOSER WHEN HES INTHE HOLDING BLIND!!:razz:

 

This is an issue of control, pure and simple. Trust me, I know. Too bad I'm too much of an ignorant amateur to know baotloads of specific drills and routines that work, but I know enough that one must have the dog under control at all times so that it generalizes to many situations.

My 4.5yr Nala was worse in the holding blind and has gotten better since I had her laying down and correcting her with verbal cues (at tests).

But she's been outta control at the line for the last two morning land tests at Finished level. So, I have to change something in my training regime and outside the training regime.

Changes I'll be making starting today:

1) Always use holding blind and work it before any drills when training alone or with group.
2) Work obedience drills before and after other drills or setups whether training alone or with group.
3) When walking my two dogs at night have collar on Nala and release her to play and call her in with whistle at randon times to reinforce control - even when "playing with her buddy".
4) Any movement or noise at line gets immediate correction (type of correction will depend on fault).
5) Keeping control and standards high during drill work and setup work.

I've failed at setting high standards and keeping them there. Maybe my next dog and I will have greater success earlier in our partnership (i.e., I hope to be smarter and much more consistent).

Live and learn.

 

It's okay to bring a bumper into the blind??? In AKC? That's not considered a "training device"?

 

That would be a No, No in HRC and AKC ...

 

Sounds like this is a fairly COMMON problem with lots of people on here... We should start a thread on the subject and get some advice from some folks that have had succsess dealing with the problem. I truely believe from my expireince that it starts with not letting it happen from the get go... My next dog will not have this problem...
Many of you may have expirienced the same thing I did and you let ego and pride in your dogs high power and drive style and performance at Blinds and Marks influence you to "Run Em anyway" cause you want others to see how awesome they run the machanics of the test... But in the long run you will hurt yourself and your dog and create a monster... You may even get to the point of still being able to PASS a finished test but the dog creeped a little, whinned a little, heeled a little too far out in front. You may pass but you are letting the dog know that at a test the STANDARDS are laxed and he is allowed to get away with it at test which compounds the problem...It will hurt you most in HRC Finished and GRAND events as they are more demanding on line manners than AKC in Masters. I would suggest starting and KEEPING HIGH strick Standards!!! But would definately be interested in hearing how anyone that made that mistake corrected it? I would assume they started over and spent a lot of money entering test and rope their dog and teach the dog that standards MUST be kept at ALL TIMES... That's hard to do 7 or 8 times at $70.00 a pop not to mention the gas and hotel bills... It also comes back to ego and pride. I would say, (I would have to look it up to be exact, but) My dog would most likely be about 15 for 17 on "Finished Test" if I had not chose to pull him and rope him on my call, not the judge's... I have pulled him about 5 times on my call where he could / would have passed and received a ribbon... and some of his "Passes were obtained by me letting it go and receiving a pass even though he creep a little, Whinned a little, Heeled a little too far out in front and passed and got a ribbon anyway, but at what cost???

 

This has been very helpful.. thanks guys... looks like I am not alone in this boat.
Once she gets to the line she is very well behaved.. it is only in the blind..
This will be her first hunting season.. I am hoping it will pop up then when I can get in a correction..
Does anyone else notice that they actually do better off leash?..

 

I have one of those dogs.... He definitely is test or situation wise, because he does not behave like an a$$ in "normal" training situations.

My solution has been to use our club's monthly training sessions like a test. No collar, no heeling stick.. just like a test. I'm lucky that our training sessions have lots of dogs, handlers, holding blinds, cars,... as close to a test as you can get.

so... if Deuce doesn't heel on the way to the blind. He goes back to the truck. If he doesn't behave in the blind, back to the truck. We have made multiple trips from truck to blind.

If he decides to be an a$$ leaving the holding blind, he gets physically stopped and flipped on his back with some Alpha-hovering while kneeling over him; then back to the truck. Believe me, the first time this happened, he could not believe what was happening to him. Behavior in all aspects was dramatically improved after this.

I don't plan on running any tests until next spring when i hope this is addressed. We've been through two training sessions with the second one much improved with this plan.

Not sayin' its for everyone.. but it worked for me.

 

yep...exactly... no problem in training.. I can leave her in the holding blind by herself and whe will patiently wait..she will even sit behind the line and honor by herself... know I need to up the ante and make the training somehow replicate the tests as closely as possible..
right now my ideas from reading here are to get that cd with the noises... turn the screws down in all phases of training and around home.. zero tolerance.. might even have to spend a night in a motel room the night before a training session... plus not running anything again until next spring.. took her with me while I judged last weekend and she had to sit in the truck while all the stuff was going on... may even go to some tests that Im not in and take my own holding blind and get her out and make her sit in the blind.... will also try the "kennel" into the blind and sit facing backwards toward me...

 

An odd thing I have noticed is... with my dog as a junior our first test was a walk up everyone ssaid to have dog on leash...dog pulled and was dancing on back two feet from time we left the blind. From then on I took off the leash in the last blind and just heeled up with her, she was suddenly very much more obedient and actually heeled with me. Had dog sit and then put two fingers in collar and signalled for birds. dog was much more controlled from then on.
I don't think I spent enough time with a leash on the dog going up to the line in training. Give some dogs something to pull on and they will pull, let go of the leash and they suddenly get worried it is a set up and heel back into position.