Fidgeting too much at the line setting up the dog. Not communicating verbally. Not understanding how to use your hand. Tone of voice change on the verbal back when nerves take over or anger.

Communication has helped me tremendously. I do hunt tests so it may not be the same at FT.

 

Chop the blind

 

​Yes, but why do they chop the blind?

 

In training? 1) False lining them, rather than fighting a factor. 2) Not handling soon enough when the dog gets off line.

 

Question... you said "in training". So, in training, shouldn't you let the dog commit to the mistake, or rather fully tip his hand that he's having "wrong-think", and THEN stop to correct?

 

1. NOT STUDYING THE BLIND DURING AND AFTER THE TEST DOG WITH AN EYE TO YOUR DOG'S STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES.
2. Making the dog nervous before it starts by issuing too many commands on the mat before the dog is shipped.
3. Nit-picking the line, robbing the dog of all momentum.
4. Expecting the dog to take every cast perfectly and not being ready to help when they don't.
5. Not having a plan to deal with a bad entry, getting on or off points and islands or not wanting to parallel the shore.
6. NOT FINISHING THE BLIND! (I can not tell you how many times I have seen handlers do this, and it ALWAYS results in failure. Sometimes when the blind was really good to that point. -Paul

 

The biggest error I see is the handler being a spectator and not a handler. ie afraid to blow the whistle and hoping the dog makes the proper choices.

 

Ah. I knew what choppy was. Thanks. I hadn’t heard it used that way.

 

Putting their dog in a position to fade with a factor. Not recognizing the draw of a factor.

I am not an experienced handler, far from it. I was watching a trial with a water blind along the shore. The shore line was to the left and the direct line looked to be about 15 yards off the shore line. Quite a long swim with a small point the dog was expected to cross at the end. Handlers were not truly recognizing the draw of the shore and usually the first handle would be a left back (as dogs staying away from the shore) and then the ping ponging would start. As I was thinking on it, I realized the a dog saw a shore line that was probably a 270 ark when turning. The handlers that went on to get ribbons were very careful when they gave a left back. They usually used at the very end to get dog in position to hit point.

 

I don't get the question. I would have to see each dog run to answer that question. Judging at the all age level most handlers I watch are very good, most handler errors are misreading or not recognizing a factor. The pros have the opportunity to go to school on the blind on not make that mistake again, the amateur who is probably as good at handling his dog as any pro, only gets one or two shots at it. I guess my answer to your question would be not studying the blind enough, leading to underestimating the difficulty of the blind.

 

I would say that the primary error that I see is:

Running the blind, not the dog

or

To put it another way, being more concerned about the line than water attitude

Ted

 

I have to agree with Ted, Reading your dogs attitude about the water and the factors effecting him during this blind are critical. As this can change on any given day or blind.
The biggest mistake I see is a majority of folks do not plan how they are going to run a particular blind, ie, where do i want to have the dog positioned on each critical part of the blind and what cast do i want to give at that spot. Most people send their dog and then only react to what he is doing, rather than trying to run the blind that you have planned and putting the dog in a better position for a higher percentage cast at the point that you stop them.
Granted, plans can go off the tracks quickly, but you then react and try to get your dog back into position and back on your plan.
During viewing of the line and watching the test dogs, really study the ENTIRE line to the blind. Look for every blade of grass, slight cover change, obstacles, change of terrain, Areas where if slightly off line you could easily lose site of your dog, wind direction, influence from the previous series, and factors that are built into the blind. Remember those 2 judges stood on that spot to pick that blind out for probably more than an hour, discussing all these different items. You have to figure out why they picked that particular blind and what factors they are looking for you to overcome.

 

I believe handlers can allow themselves to be intimidated by any blind &
transmit that to their dog. Walking to the line & having a positive feeling
about your dog's ability for success can contribute to the dog's success.

 

To me, the most important component to a good water blind is a good water attitude on the part of the dog. As a judge, I often see a dog that has a good water attitude, that is eroded by the handler's obsession with the line to the blind.

I am not saying that the line to the blind is not important, it obviously is.
I am saying that oftentimes, the handler is better off with a less than ideal line to the blind, if it reinforces the dog's commitment to perform a water blind.

For example, I have watched dogs that were approaching the water with great momentum (they wanted to do a water blind) that were stopped by their handlers because they didn't enter the water at the precise spot the handler wanted. That stop confused the dogs (you don't want water?). And if that were not enough, the handlers then spent whistles making sure that the entry in the water was perfect, or that the dog maintained the perfect line in the water. If you pick at the line enough, you will erode, if not destroy a dog's water attitude. And then you are toast.

Handlers need to remember that a pleasing blind is a function of momentum and control - and that the two must remain in balance.

Ted

 

Hoping to the blind, vs. handling to the blind.

And the 180 degree opposite of above................hacking it to the blind; aka "army blind".........left, right, left, right

 

Most common blind mistakes, for me and judging others. Is handlers not understanding there is a beginning, middle, and end to a blind; Make sure as a handler you address all three. So where do handlers screw up most? 1) the end, gawd do handlers tend mess-up the end of a blind, they keep it tight and get the dog almost there and then just let them get self employed. 2) the beginning, Yes your dog is suppose to be sort've facing the general direction toward the blind, makes it easier . 3) the middle most handlers understand the middle, but the term "challenge" the blind is oftentimes lost. Blowing a whistle is not held against you unless the dog doesn't obey the whistle nor the instructions you give with it.

 

Most common blind mistakes, for me and judging others. Is handlers not understanding there is a beginning, middle, and end to a blind; Make sure as a handler you address all three. So where to handlers screw up most? 1) the end, gawd do handlers tend mess-up the end of a blind, they keep it tight and get the dog almost there and then just let them get self employed. 2) the beginning, Yes your dog is suppose to be sort've facing the general direction toward the blind, makes it easier . 3) the middle most handlers understand the middle, but the term "challenge" the blind is oftentimes lost. Blowing a whistle is not held against you unless the dog doesn't obey the whistle nor the instructions you give with it.

Reading this thread "challenge" the blind vs "chop" the blind immediately became confusing for me. I have been told repeatedly that challenging the line is typically where most newbie handlers make mistakes. Then I read about chopping the blind. The terms seem awful similar to me. How do you tell the difference especially if the whistle and cast don't count against you unless the dog gives a refusal or takes a wrong cast.

 

My dog HAD a problem with popping only on water blinds. Luckily for me the winter was cold and we didnt do water blinds for a few months. Now, she has what Ive heard referred to as Blind Legs, a slower approach to the water. I try to let her go as long as possible before any correct as long as she is close to the line and not caving to any factor. After the first whistles, her momentum picks up quite a bit. Is this a common thing or do other dogs feel like once theyve been told where to go, they seem more confident.

 

Not limited to water, but:
Ill-timed whistles.
Unnecessary whistles.
Over-casting.
Under-casting.
Verbal at the wrong time.
Not verbal when needed.
Underestimating the difficulty.
Over-thinking the difficulty.
No game plan.

 

Handlers need to have a "game plan" with alternatives before they step to a blind line. This takes experience, dog knowledge, and clarity of appropriate action. Easier said than done. Good handlers have those qualities.

 

Mostly a hunt test guy and not a very good handler even there. Things I see are handlers not recognizing when the dog commits to beach and allowing the dog to build momentum to the shore. Good blinds will have decision points. Handlers allow dogs to make the decision instead of stopping and making the decision for the dog.

 

To me Chopping a blind, is basically giving the dog too much cast or the dog taking too much cast (straight overs, or extreme angles back and forth) . So basically if we drew a straight line to the blind, the dog would be chopping back and forth across the line and not really staying on line nor in the blind corridor. The more pleasant-superior blind is the dog that stays and carries casts, closest to the line, always with-in the corridor; more akin to minimal angle casts or just left-right back casts. If the only casts you need to give though out the blind (Beginning. middle and End) are minor variations of back; you should be pretty close on the line, inside the corridor; and providing your not micromanaging to keep the dog on line, it is quite pleasant to watch. However many handlers seems to get in the middle of a blind then just let the dogs run, ending up with extreme casts at the end. If you have to give Extreme casts at the end, it's a pretty good bet you're not challenging the blind through out. Now as to why handlers do this; whether they don't know they aren't in the corridor (handler needs more line time), or they just don't expect a dog to stop nor take their casts, is always up to judge interpretation. It result will usually be the same "challenge" the blind.

 

I agree with Ted that the dog's attitude is huge. The biggest mistake I see handlers make (particularly in the Am) is letting the dog get in fat on initial line. It sucks to have to blow a whistle early, but sometimes you have to. If the dog is way wide early in the blind, it is hard to recover. Ideally, the handler does what it takes to get a good initial line, but I see over and over where Amateur handlers mess this up.

Johnny G

 

I agree with Ted that the dog's attitude is huge. The biggest mistake I see handlers make (particularly in the Am) is letting the dog get in fat on initial line. It sucks to have to blow a whistle early, but sometimes you have to. If the dog is way wide early in the blind, it is hard to recover. Ideally, the handler does what it takes to get a good initial line, but I see over and over where Amateur handlers mess this up.


Johnny G

I think Ted was arguing the opposite, that handlers try too hard to get that angle entry, chopping up the blind with away from the water cast on a dog trying to dive in early. At least, that's the way I read it.

 

I guess what I was describing is when a dog takes a poor initial line way fat into the water and is allowed to carry it for a few strokes and then is out of bounds very early in the blind. I see this mistake on land blinds as well. It's a tough balance between not wanting to micro-manage the dog vs. getting in a hole right off the bat. It sucks to have to break the dog's momentum, but if the initial line is too wide, you need to intervene.That being said, I love running and judging dogs that move well on their blinds!

Johnny G

 

I would say not positioning the dog in a good position when they get out of the water at a critical point.

For example if you are running a blind across a point which "points to the left" I watch many handlers let the dog touch the land at an angle which pushes them to the right and causes them to be more off line. then right away they are on the defense trying to get their dog back in the water with multiple left casts or pick up. the dog is faster on land so why wait until they hit the land.

If the handle would have changed the dogs direction and angle ahead of hitting ground they would have had a more successful opportunity to handle the dog off the left point.