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HRC Hunt Test Low Entries???

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Burnt Oak Retrievers

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Mid Atlantic HRC had their first event this weekend in Farmville, VA and the entries were extremely low. I have noticed the decline in the entries over the past two years in this region. What is is from? Anybody have any suggestions.
Before you say it. I know the grand didn't help out but where are the 120+ AKC dogs that fill every weekend? Why isn't HRC "fitting in" in this region?
 
#3 ·
Some of it may have to do with the limit on dogs per handler. I know the pros do not like that and like it or not they bring lots of dogs to the AKC masters.

Russell
 
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#4 ·
it seems to be all over not just one area. there could be many reasons, the price of gas to get there, people that have the resources to do this are getting older, finished seems to do ok but started and seasoned seem to be low. could be people skip these and go to finished. but I have looked at akc hunt tests and they seem to have low numbers in jr and sr, master seems to fill up.in our area the weather sucks so training is hard to do.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
After this weekend this is what I think.
HRC needs to get back to the grass roots of their slogan "Conceived by Hunters For hunters". It seems that the amateur gets judged harder than the pro!! I say this as a Pro. And the standard isn't the standard that it was 5 years ago. I will say this that with the reputation that HRC is getting on the east coast or mid atlantic region it will be next to impossible to have a Successful HRC event. The key to success is interested members and entries. If the intreset in HRC goes down because the test are impossible to pass with and average dog then we have lost all hope in getting an established hunt test in the state of Virginia. We already have 3 clubs in a two hour window that struggle with entries. You know maybe judging with a slightly less sharp pencil wouldn't be a bad thing. Our Started and Seasoned flights were perfect had a few fail but there was no doubt. Our Finished has a pass rate of 9% on Sunday. Now were the dogs that bad or were the judges that tough or Maybe the 10 dogs that entered weren't ready even tough (6 were MH or had MH passes).

So basically if we weed out the amateur and make it an unpleasurable experience why in the world would he or she pay 130 for entries plus give up a weekend and pay 200+ for expenses.
 
#6 ·
Didn't you have the same judges Sat and Sun? AKC tests have shots from the gunner station. MHs have to learn to mark of the gun. Not hard to teach but if a dog does not swing and see the mark he is going to have a hard time picking it up. How many finished entries did you end up with each day?
 
#7 ·
On the heels of the Grand and if you're going to use EE you need to get the word out to clubs and members in the region. One of the clubs in my region went to EE this year and I missed scheduling their test and entered an AKC instead.
On the HRC calendar there was no mention of EE
 
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#8 ·
No comment on the Virginia area. Locally, HRC seems alive and well. 2 tests within driving distance & both are full in Finished on Mothers Day weekend. DAH waited until the last minute & is running Finished Sunday only. Will be there Saturday also running 1 dog in Seasoned.
 
#9 ·
If, as stated in the original post, this was the club's FIRST test, low numbers could be attributed to people not being familiar with the club, not expecting a test in that place on that weekend, and particularly not knowing about the test because it was on EE and not Hunt Secretary. If publicity for next year's test is better and the numbers are still low, then you might have something to worry about. From what I've seen, it can take a couple of years for a new event to really get going.
 
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#10 ·
fishduck said:
No comment on the Virginia area. Locally, HRC seems alive and well. 2 tests within driving distance & both are full in Finished on Mothers Day weekend. DAH waited until the last minute & is running Finished Sunday only. Will be there Saturday also running 1 dog in Seasoned.
Click to expand...
DAH betta be running in FAIRHOPE.... :D
 
#11 ·
HRC folks tend to expect HRC events to be posted on HuntSecretary.com. HRC is alive and well and thriving in our area. Bay Area will likely be full in Finished, Seasoned and Started for this weekend. Music City will no doubt be full as well. Frankly, the same folks run AKC and HRC (and some FT's, too) for the most part. Its all dogs having fun picking up chickens.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Will,
You bring up good points. I agree with you that in that it is surprising that MH dogs did not pass Finished tests in that number. I ran HRC finished two weekends this spring and the tests difficulty varied greatly.

As a "newbie" running one dog, hunt tests in general are not friendly to the amateur. It involves a bunch of sit and wait.

We discussed attending your test, but with the Grand just completed, it just did not happen. I think your next test will be better attended.

The HRC's inconsistency in how you register for a hunt test is also a factor. In HRC, Hunt Secretary is a pain. Having to sign up for every day individually, etc. Not to mention some clubs still using paper entries only.

In AKC entry express is it. It is also a very good system, particularly of you have multiple dogs.

Just my two cents,
NCShooter
 
#15 · (Edited)
In Florida HRC is bleeding bad. NEFHRC had 20 finished, 7 seasoned, and 4 started.

CFHRC did ok, BUT they held their test in combination with an AKC test. 40 finished, 26 seasoned, and 20 started. The year before they cancelled because of low entries. In 2012 they had they had 26 finished dogs. This is also the HRC Presidents home club.

Our test, TCHRC had 12 finished, 6 seasoned, and 6 started dogs. Training days have more dogs running. This may have been the end of HRC for us. We will be discussing it thoroughly because this is at least the fifth year that our entry's just don't justify the cost of running a test. We lost money and that is just bad business. My personal vote is going to be to hold another FT, HT, or combination of the two rather than invest the money and effort to hold a HRC test.
 
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#16 ·
fishduck said:
Y'all were full! Meeting my sister in Nashville to run brother in laws dog.:oops::oops: I need to sell tickets!!! Tipsy is low drive compared to him!
Click to expand...
We're gonna miss you guys! The real show will be Dooley at seasoned. Remember, he escaped the holding blind and beat the working to the bird at North AL. Made Sonya proud of Tipsy! :razz:
 
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#18 ·
Will:

I have been vocal on this issue for quite some time. I believe strongly that HRC is suffering declining entries can be partially attributed to a move away from its core constituency. The HRC was designed to serve the guy with one dog looking for a better hunting companion, not the serious dog trainer and certainly not as a minor league to the Grand. Unfortunately recent leadership has developed an inferiority complex and has done everything it can to drive the organization to emulate the AKC HT program, something it will never successfully accomplish on a nationwide basis for a variety of reasons. Any dissent has been firmly suppressed, and God forbid you should criticize the Grand.

Recent FUBARS have exacerbated the situation and driven people from the program.

As a judge, I have been 'encouraged' to set tests with the emphasis on conventional training and less as an evaluation of a hunting dog. This to some degree has pushed the tests away from the guy who trains once or twice a week and into of the realm of the serious trainer and of the professional. Over the last year or so, I have judged a number of finished tests in the Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia. At almost every test, I have judged nearly full finished flights where the I might have 3-4 pros with 20+ dogs and 3 -4 amateurs frequently with multiple dogs. At the ribbon ceremonies and the wonderful dinners hosted by these clubs the attendance is very poor compared to other areas I have judged. Except for one spectacular exception. the seasoned tests and started tests have been very poorly attended. This tells me the amateur is staying away. The big question is why.

I do not think for one instant the loss of the amateur is due solely to the type of tests being offered, but it sure doesn't help.

One major handicap facing the HRC is the transiency of it core market. The AKC attracts serious trainers who have made it a major part of their lifestyle. AKC titles carry far more weight with a majority of the puppy markets. The original target constituency for the HRC was the guy with one dog for whom dog training was all part of the greater activity of waterfowling (and to a degree upland hunting). Unfortunately these people seem to stay as long as they need to reach the desired levels with their dog and then drift away. HRC seems to have a few diehards in each club. These members must continually recruit new members in the hope they can groom a few new 'diehards' to go along with the transients before the core burns itself out. Clubs that fail in this recruiting seem to die on the vine once the core burns itself out. Attracting new members is that much harder when the tests lose relevancy.

I think the HRC is misguided trying to offer itself as an alternative to the serious dog trainer, especially in a tight economy. In many areas it has driven away its core without replacing the core with its coveted participants. Critics of my position point to the 400+ dog attendance as evidence of their success. I posit this is proof of my position as 90+% are pro handled. The MN by comparison has a higher percentage of amateur handlers. Valid criticism of the Grand by knowledgeable trainers point to the unevenness of the judging and the over emphasis on line behavior as a criteria for an elite hunting dog. Less value placed on the hunting ability of the dog and more emphasis on precision lines and precision marking are more in line with field trial standards than evaluating hunting dogs.

The HRC as initially envisioned served a very valuable role to the dog sport as a whole. It provided an additional portal for those only tangentially interested in training their dogs to the greater world of advanced retriever training. Those who no longer were satisfied with the quirks and informal HRC attitude can move along to greater challenges in the FT world or the typically more technical AKC tests.

This is my opinion but I think it is shared in some form or another by many long time HRC participants who are very concerned by the current direction of the HRC.
 
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#19 ·
Well said Stu. Back in 2004-2006 Rebel and I were going to a lot of HRC tests going for 500 points. We travelled all over the south east doing it. I see very little of that any more. Owners/trainers/handlers get the HRCH then go to AKC for MH and I think many just don't come back to run for points. What is the point? The AKC MH and MNH title do carry more weight and seem to be more recognizable to the general public as far as breeding goes.
And I think there is still and will continue to be a back lash from a certain % that remember the Tommy Landers Grand, Claudene's departure and all of the silence that went with it, and the publicity debacle of the last election. As in all things, people do have a choice.
JMHO
MP
 
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