See there Terry I gave you some free advertising.

 

Wow....I agree as well.

 

What you talkin bout Willis who you agreeing with?

 

I mentioned you can't find a nice FC litter for 1200. You suggested I look around. That was just a price someone else said, not me, but you don't have any FC litters on your site and the females don't even have a JH title. Not that a JH title is worth much. But I guess if I look around more as you suggested, you would fall into the rip off category. More power to you if you're getting them sold, but it's funny you suggested I look around and then your site has inferior litters to even what we are discussing here. We are discussing FC to not much. Your litters are only MH to not much. Pedigree wise speaking only. I'm sure your dogs are nice dogs.

 

Wow, nice compliment at the end of that paragraph.

 

and duk4me, there are plenty of threads from newbies needed help with training, why dont you spend some time commenting on their post and help.

 

Nah I don't even have a dog. I'm more a cat person.

 

I dont know Terry personally but he has anice place and has people that trust him with their dogs and if he chooses to road his dogs with a bumper in their mouth thats his choice.

 

Duk4me, you have every right to not read a post if you dont like it but feel free to make some new threads that could benefit the newbies with all of your knowledge and retriever training wisdom. ive recently seen people bashed that have a few females that they breed because they are "new" and their bitches may not have titles but the rest of pedigree is stacked with titles and dogs who run. some of them have been bashed for breeding to a stud who is "only" qaa or a MH but yet people wouldnt bash the owner of the fc afc who bred to a no pedigree no desire female. I hear these same people make comments over and over " the bitch line is just as important if not more " or " choose a bitch with best possible bitch lines" but then breed to a bitch with NO desire and out of two parents with NO desire and nothing on paper behind them.

 

You do have a nice website and a place to envy. Nice grounds. You should put your website address in your sig line on here.

 

Terry you don't read very well do you? Name is in plain site. Keep running them greyhounds. Btw how many of the lower 48 states open dove season on Sept 1st?

 

You are right dyslexic from birth, Thank god my greyhounds can read.

 

Hey Terry, I think it's cocktail hour in Texas. Might as well have fun!

 

It is amazing isn't it Nancy? Where have the knowledgeable people gone on this site. We have neophytes questioning FC breeders and owners and supposed trainers suggesting running dogs for a mile behind a four wheeler holding bumpers. I really fear that some of the advice here is going to injure someone dogs and/or at the least make some newbies make some bad decisions regarding their dogs. Scary to me.

 

Yes Duk4me send me a PM and i will tell you the benefits of running dogs with objects in their mouths, OH and by the way I am not a supposed trainer but support 37 kennels and function on 165 acres of my own land . Who the hell are you, show me your name.

 

people such as myself can decipher these breeders and it is in turn a poor reflection of the stud owner.When we see a female bred 2 heat cycles in a row to the same FC stud, we remember and ask ourselves why the FC owner would breed to that female.

I totally don't get this whole post. First of all, what's wrong with breeding two times in a row.? Repro vets actually advise it. Maybe it was a good nick and the pups were great.

but hopefully you also realize that these justifications do diminish the ability of people such as myself to buy a decent dog for a decent price too. Someone mentioned 1200 bucks above. Hell, we can't even find that anymore.

You are totally not looking around much

When I see a litter for a reasonable price by a well known FC now, I ask myself what is wrong with those pups. Probably nothing and they were likely bred by someone who knows what he's doing and has common sense.

Now that is really poor reasoning. Kind of like the people that won't buy the last pup in a litter because something must be wrong with him.

But just be aware, who you breed your FC to does have reputation consequences.

It's not like everyone knows who you breed to

 

I don't give a rats ass who breeds what to what. It is up to the BUYER of the puppy to do their due diligence when making a purchase. This improving the breed is a load of crap and usually thrown out there by people who are not even on the fringe of producing top class dogs. If I were fortunate enough to own an FC, and I won't cause I don't enjoy the game, I would breed to whomever I wanted to. It is a joke for someone not even in the game to tell people they are wrong to breed to untitled bitches. I'd bet my lunch money if someone wrote them a 2k check the same people would breed to a freaking wiener dog.

 

Any thoughts on what a pup might cost if only fc-afc was bred to fc-afc, the gene pool would be ridiculously small. Breeding high caliber dogs to the pet market can only be a good thing for the breed as a whole when done responsibly.

 

John, I respect your posts and this gentleman that has a couch dog that wont retrieve anything and he said her parents were the same way and lived with an older couple and they were just house dogs. he had a pedigree on his dog and there was nothing. he mentioned he bought her out of the newspaper. i guess we are lucky enough that he had enough sense to breed to a fc afc instead o another back yard dog. People keep saying things about an untitled mom of pups and yes there are great dogs that are out of non titled bitches but AGAIN this guy bred to a fc afc with not only an untitled bitch with no desire but a full pedigree of non titled dogs and dogs that dont have desire.
i will drop it since i guess im the only one that feels the way i do.

 

i will drop it since i guess im the only one that feels the way i do.

Don't have a dog in the fight? Don't worry about those who do. Most are fully capable of taking care of themselves and their dogs "reputation".

 

If I ever have a stud dog that happens to be in demand, I would want to make sure the bitch had health clearances and was in fact a labrador retriever.

The free market can take care of the rest of it. The owner of the bitch is free to do what he wants with the pups once he has paid for the stud fee... I don't really care from that point on.

All the betterment of the breed and all that stuff will take care of itself. Bring your checkbook.

 

Made soon room

 

Justin, clear your inbox.

 

When talking about bettering the breed, this is how it usually works. You get lucky and fined a bitch that has all the tool and for some reason,( they are many) she has no titles. To proof the line you are trying to start. You want to introduce and good dog with titles, so that you can compete and have some certainty of being excepted within the community.

Keith

 

There are a few who require titled bitches, have never spoke to anyone who at minimum didn't at least require health testing, some have asked about pedigree.

 

Well, well, this is the person that sent me the graphic with a Silver Labrador on Kim's "supposed website" which of course she claims she didn't make up, but she did readily pass it around. Thought we wouldn't notice? Of course, she has 4 litters advertised but no accomplishments on EE as opposed to Kim who we know and love who has multiple QAA and MH's and who is known as honest and a breeder of Yellows, Chocolates, and Blacks and NOT Silvers ever.

 

But throw up a website with some professional photos, lots of fluff with no real info, become a social media expert, and one can spin anything these days. No pedigree? No problem!

Don't forget the T-shirts. Folks be aware and do your due diligence. Buying females to breed has always been done, but most are put up for sale because they have some kind of problem, and if it is health problems and they have a nice pedigree, well beware.

 

Rarely does a pedigree like that come with health certs or titles, but if the person has both, I see nothing wrong with doing the breeding. They are upgrading and there have been no pedigree FC's. I ask people how many they have deposits for before breeding, why they are doing the breeding, how they plan to market the pups, and how much do they think they are going to sell them for. If people have a JH on an FC breeding, they are not going to get $2K a puppy. They are welcome to try but there are a lot of nice breedings out there for much less.

 

I don't know, Justin, I just posted that one because I knew about it and it was a good example of what I think LJS meant, I don't recall seeing too many like that getting bred to FC AFC. But throw up a website with some professional photos, lots of fluff with no real info, become a social media expert, and one can spin anything these days. No pedigree? No problem!

 

No doubt about that, there are some good salesman and very uneducated buyers out there. Facebook has certainly brought it to the forefront.

 

To show just how much the bitch owner is in charge of stud decisions, using the same pedigree I posted above, but for a male, with clearances but no titles of any kind, how many quality bitches would he get bred to?

 

Admittedly I don't look at litters often due to me being an impulse buyer. How often are pedigrees like that getting through to your bigger name dogs? That pedigree is certainly not much to look at, lol.

 

I'm not new but this post actually made me register. It is shocking to me the responses people posted. They seem like little more than justifications. The OP is pointing out that when an owner of an FC AFC breeds to a female with little in the way of pedigree and is obviously just breeding his sire to someone who is just trying to make a buck, people such as myself can decipher these breeders and it is in turn a poor reflection of the stud owner. When we see a female bred 2 heat cycles in a row to the same FC stud, we remember and ask ourselves why the FC owner would breed to that female. And yes people like me who is not a trainer, has nothing more than dreams of owning an FC but will likely only ever have a decent meat dog that we are fond of, are also smart enough to know we aren't talking about Grady's momma or Candlewood breedings. As stated above, there are way more good, capable dogs being bred, than there are capable trainers and owners. So why is someone with a great dog breeding to these kinds of females. I understand you need to recoup money, and that why not to a certain extant if the female has clearances, but hopefully you also realize that these justifications do diminish the ability of people such as myself to buy a decent dog for a decent price too. Someone mentioned 1200 bucks above. Hell, we can't even find that anymore. There was a litter recently by a lesser known National Finalist to a female whose pedigree was not even listed or linked on his website for 2K. When I see a litter for a reasonable price by a well known FC now, I ask myself what is wrong with those pups. Probably nothing and they were likely bred by someone who knows what he's doing and has common sense. But just be aware, who you breed your FC to does have reputation consequences. I also realize if I went to more trials and got to know more people in the trial world, many of these issues would likely go away.

 

When you have 100k in a male that is still competing come back and tell your sob story. And I don't see anyone breeding to junk pedigrees when I look at litters, pretty well every female has a distinguishable pedigree. I'd like to see all of the critics of Stud owners turn down 1000-2000 stud fees because the bitch isint titled. That's not realistic for the average person

 

Grady's first breeding was to an untitled bitch, although she was running field trials and had some derby placements and ran Quals, and she had a Candlewood pedigree bred by Mary Howley. They produced 2012 NAFC Traveler, FC Dude, and 2 QAA females in that first litter