[kennel maiden]

Just out of interest, why do you want the dog to sit? And why is what you call a 'sloppy sit' a problem?

 

[kennel maiden]

Why is sitting 'correctly' a requirement? Is that written into your KC rules.

My dogs rarely sit. I run them from a stand. They line better this way, and when stopping and redirecting everything is more fluid. So we don't really insist on sitting at all.

 

[kennel maiden]

It's interesting the cultural differences here, as no-one I know in UK has ever voiced that sitting wonky is a sign of avoidance! Or submission. That's not something I would consider. Puppyish maybe. But it seems to be a total non-issue here, but a v big issue in USA. Interesting. Like I say, it's a very non-issue for me as I prefer my dogs to stand!

 

[kennel maiden]

Hi Kennel Maiden,

Welcome back. I'm glad you did not allow one poorly thought-out comment by someone (As I recall, wasn't it an anon poster?) make you depart for good.

When I came to the UK several years ago for some retriever fun, I called someone who had been over the year prior to get his assessment of what to expect. His comment was, "expect the UK folks to handle on marks much more readily than we are used to. Expect the UK folks to allow their dogs to hunt on blinds much more than we are used to".

I found that to be accurate.

It's not right, nor is it wrong. It is just a difference in the way we conduct our events. Form follows function.

The reason our training methodologies attempt for a crisp, straight sit as a standard has to do with the precision required on our blind retrieves to make callbacks and win trials. (Or meet the standard for hunt tests)

A crooked sit can tend to lead to a less precise cast. So it is in our best interest upfront to establish a nice sit standard.

Most of Polmaise's favorite retriever training programs include coverage of a good sit standard.

Chris

Not sure why you can't cast accurately with a stand? My dogs are taught to turn on the correct shoulder according to the hand I use, irrespective of how they stand when they are stopped. I don't think our handling is any less precise than yours!

Yes, I know you get penalised for handling on marks (And to be honest we do too, but not to the extent you do), but that doesn't come into the sit thing?! And things have moved on here significantly in recent years since your old friend may have last updated you. Handling has become much more technical. If you want to win/do well, you have to pay attention to detail and up your game.

But, my observation still stands. We don't interpret what you call a 'sloppy sit' at all in the same way you do. For me, it is irrelevant, as my dogs rarely sit (unless at a drive). Lots of folk here do have their dogs sitting though (probably still the majority), but I have never really heard it as a point of concern. Interesting. That's all.

P. S. Not wanting to 'dis' Polmaise at all, but his methods are probably a bit different/more old school than mine and some others involved with trialling nowadays...

 

[kennel maiden]

My two cents on lazy sit. In a lazy sit they are lower and diminish their depth perception a bit. Second they do not turn with the handler very well from a lazy sit on either marks or blinds. I run across an occasional dog that wants to stand rather than sit on a whistle. As long as they stop and look at the handler square it seems to work.
This is for our training here.

Ah, now I see where it is important for you - at heel and turning the dog. Yes, sitting non-parallel would be issue as would affect lining, running a line. That is why mine stand at heel. So they can always be parallel and turn with me quickly to mark. But we do a lot of 'walk up' work, so it is imperative the dog is quick to turn and Mark (the next mark may be coming from behind the dog/handler) and we usually have no idea where the next bird is coming from.

So, at heel if you had to have a sitting dog, then yes I can see the importance of being perfectly parallel to handler. But my point is it's probably better for them to stand so they are straight in alignment and can move around quicker to mark?