I wish they had a better diagram of the set up! seems much tougher than yesterday.

 

It is much more difficult, water and island marks make it that way. Generally the first set of water marks involves very little swimming, usually more like land marks through water, it is unusual to have a test this time consuming this early, if the time estimates are correct they may not finish tomorrow.

 

3rd Series is a water triple with 2 retired & a mallard hen flyer. The middle island bird is proving difficult thus far in the early going.

54, 56, & 57 have handled. Started with #50 who had a no bird.

 

If my math is correct, 26 1/4 hours to run 105 dogs (15 minute average.). That's not including rebirds & gun changes.

That said, if they drop all the handles that they're averaging, (I know it's early in the day & not all handles/gorilla hunts are created equal.) they could really cut the field down significantly.

 

Traditionally, unlike weekend field trials, dogs are allowed two dings (e.g handle, huge hunt, bad blind) before they are dropped. Again, traditionally, the big cut comes after the 5th series land triple/ quad

 

Two day test?--Then big cuts based on 5 marks. land blind?

 

If it continues as it is going now, both timewise and performancewise, a handle will send you home. :-x

JS

 

58 & 60 handled.

 

Two day test?--Then big cuts based on 5 marks. land blind?

We have no clue what's going to happen, but if things hold the same & if they do make a big cut (2 big ifs as this is speculation @ best.) I don't see the issue. IMO, marks should matter more & I do not like the idea of handles playing. Whenever you get a chance to drop the dog, do it. Again, strictly IMO.

 

We have no clue what's going to happen, but if things hold the same & if they do make a big cut (2 big ifs as this is speculation @ best.) I don't see the issue. IMO, marks should matter more & I do not like the idea of handles playing. Whenever you get a chance to drop the dog, do it. Again, strictly IMO.

I surely hope you change this attitude if and when you judge.

 

There is an updated sketch in the BLOG that shows the arc of the falls, and the order of the throws is numbered.

 

From what I understand, the flyer throw is actually much squarer to the line than indicated on the diagram (thus shorter swim, shorter test).

 

​Unusually big for third series. More like 8,9, or 10th series test

 

Judging a national is different from a weekend trial, generally speaking, a dog should not be dropped because of one handle! The unwritten rule is: two major faults will get you eliminated---at least in my day.

Too many judges focus on tests that will eliminate dogs instead of tests that will fairly evaluate them---a mentality through all my years i never understood.
GG

 

It's always more enjoyable to run under judges that are cheering and hoping for the dogs to do well!

 

If I read the posted set-up sheet correctly, this is supposed to be a 9-minute test. If that is correct, they should still have time to finish a short water blind tomorrow.

 

Traditionally, unlike weekend field trials, dogs are allowed two dings (e.g handle, huge hunt, bad blind) before they are dropped. Again, traditionally, the big cut comes after the 5th series land triple/ quad

It was pure speculation @ best as I said. I merely said it as the time frame shows 2 days to finish & if they did it. Not saying they would.

Now, here's a question that you can answer in pm if you'd rather do so. Besides it being tradition, why is it that a dog who is clean and sometimes very clean dropped after a handle in the 9th when a dog who handles in the 1st and even another handle later isn't dropped? Those are the real head scratchers for myself. Just morbid curiosity is all.

 

It was pure speculation @ best as I said. I merely said it as the time frame shows 2 days to finish & if they did it. Not saying they would.

Now, here's a question that you can answer in pm if you'd rather do so. Besides it being tradition, why is it that a dog who is clean and sometimes very clean dropped after a handle in the 9th when a dog who handles in the 1st and even another handle later isn't dropped? Those are the real head scratches for myself. Just morbid curiosity is all.

It's like NASCAR. If you hit the wall on lap 20 you have time to recover and might keep running. If you hit the wall on the last lap you're done.

 

Well, 1st gun change and about 1/3 of the dogs have handled so far. Sounds like a difficult test. I trained in those ponds 5 years ago and we did some very similar bridge bird kind of stuff. I remember it kicked my dogs royal butt. That doughnut pond off to the right was sort of fun too.

 

I surely hope you change this attitude if and when you judge.

I should have specified. A total failure is what I was talking about. Sorry, but I, nor pretty much anybody I know believes that a dog with mediocre marks & a complete failure on a blind should keep playing in a weekend FT.

I would consider listening to those who have actually run nationals and I also second hoping you don't judge with that attitude.

I cleared up the misunderstanding.

Jacob,

Now would be a good time for you to hush up and see how a National is different than anything you have experienced. When Mr. Danny gets home, ask him what he thinks about a handle not playing and let us know what he says.

And please don't start judging until you lose the "whenever you get a chance to drop the dog, do it" mentality. You have formed some very strong opinions for your extremely short amount of time in the game. Don't Phase 2 us for too long, K? Thankuverymuch. :razz:

I believe we actually had a discussion about handles in a National just last fall while training @ The Caire's property. Sigh.

I think you'll agree with what I said on the clarification.

 

I should have specified. A total failure is what I was talking about. Sorry, but I, nor pretty much anybody I know believes that a dog with mediocre marks & a complete failure on a blind should keep playing in a weekend FT.

Total failure is a tad different than what you implied in your original post, where you prefaced it with saying you didn't like handles to keep playing. But won't sidetrack this thread any further, we all have our own preferences for dog work and those judging it.

 

Because the latter dog most likely made it to the 10th series and handled there. Dogs who make it to the 10th and pick up the birds are finalists. Where have you seen a double handle prior to the 10th series getting called back? That would be quite rare.

Not a double handle. A dog with 2 separate handles. Again, I should have specified.

 

My bad, I meant to say two handles, not a double handle. You all know I am not a morning person!

 

You get more pleasant in the evening? :shock:

Sorry ... I just had to get that in before someone else did! :razz:

JS

 

When I ran my first National Amateur in 1982 someone far wiser and more experienced told me that when you make a mistake is often more important than what that mistake is, ie if you make a mistake in a series that the judges want to drop dogs you will probably be gone. One of the many great challenges of judging a National is being consistent with drops.

Thank you, Dr. Ed. That makes it a little clearer for myself. Good luck tomm & throughout the week.

My bad, I meant to say two handles, not a double handle. You all know I am not a morning person!

I forgive you. Just this once.

I can answer that one because it happened to me. In the 2001 Nat'l in Cheraw, SC I went into the 9th very clean. My dog ended up with a massive hunt out of the area... AND a handle (her first) 2 dings and I was dropped. It was like a kick in the gut... but we failed the test.

But the real answer to your question is: it depends... on the dogs other work... Only the judges know.

That would have knocked the wind out of me & made me want to puke.

Thanks for your reply.

 

Wish I was there to see the test in person. Pretty tough 3rd series! Lots of great marking dogs handling! Good luck Dr. Ed!
Bobby

 

66 & 62 handled. 65 picked up.

69 & 70 had no birds.

 

I'm not there to actually see the test but if a really good dog like Jerry Lee PU I think it's a tough 3rd Series.

 

It would be interesting to know if the no-bird played into it. In other words, did he hunt where the no-bird fell? You have to be good AND have some good luck at these things...

 

What do the initials in between the dogs name and handler represent?LM,LF,ETC.On the blog page.

 

Labrador Male - LM; Labrador Female - LF

 

If you look at the setup diagram on the Blog, you will see that this test was 3A. The setup dogs apparently did this test in 9 minutes. So the judges were banking on a 9 minute test and got a 15 minute test. Which puts them in a bind. I would expect that as the test goes on, there will be a better read on the test, and times will start to drop.

 

The last few have been about 11 mins, even with handles. Must be handling quicker.

 

LM- Labrador Male and LF- Labrador Female

 

Tia #66 handled, she is a wonderfully talented dog who had a great week of training, one of the best dogs in our group...

 

Seems like the re-run dogs are having trouble.

At 11+min/dog they'll just make the turn at sunset. 9:30
But, it seems to be cloudy/rainy today so light may fade earlier than sunset.
Hope dogs in the 100 teens don't run at dusk.