[Murphy]

We have a 10 month Nova Scotia Duck Toller. She is basic obedience trained. ( sit stay heel come).
We have let her play off leash at the park. We started bumper training this week. (dropping a bumper, walking away and then pointing and saying dead bird and she gets it and comes back) She was taking to it very well...but we probably made a big mistake letting her roam free at the park. Today she took off like the wind and ran as hard as she could ignoring our calls. Once she wore herself out she came back. We are afraid to take her back to practise. Our basic obedience trainer had said not to ever let them runoffleash until they always come when called. Soooo how do we burn off her energy if she can never go for a good run? We are not sure if today was a result of not getting to really run all week and just walks and bumper training.
Any thoughts?

 

[K9kodi]

Well your trainer was right. If they dont totally know the command, or know to respect it, you should not attempt it without a means of enforcement. During training, you should never give a command that you cannot immediately reinforce. All your doing by calling the dog as they are off leash and ignoring you is teaching them they don't have to listen to you, and when they don't, there is no negative and the positive is they get to do what they want.
you can go to an enclosed fenced area and let him run till his hearts content, just don't work the recall off leash. Let him run and be a dog. Ignore him and when he comes back on his own give him a good amount of praise. I'm sure there are other ideas, work the retrieve on a 100 foot line and work continuous retrieves to wear him out, at least if he doesn't return on command you can immediately physically reinforce it.

 

[Don Lietzau]

We have a 10 month Nova Scotia Duck Toller. She is basic obedience trained. ( sit stay heel come).
We have let her play off leash at the park. We started bumper training this week. (dropping a bumper, walking away and then pointing and saying dead bird and she gets it and comes back) She was taking to it very well...but we probably made a big mistake letting her roam free at the park. Today she took off like the wind and ran as hard as she could ignoring our calls. Once she wore herself out she came back. We are afraid to take her back to practise. Our basic obedience trainer had said not to ever let them runoffleash until they always come when called. Soooo how do we burn off her energy if she can never go for a good run? We are not sure if today was a result of not getting to really run all week and just walks and bumper training.
Any thoughts?

10 months old and she is not collar conditioned to "Here"? Any reason why not? Get her check cord and e-collar conditioned to "Here". I would then get her in a big field or now, here out a frozen lake and let her burn it up. She must return and you collar is the way to getting that done.
Don and Crew

 

[MissSkeeter]

We have a 10 month Nova Scotia Duck Toller. She is basic obedience trained. ( sit stay heel come).
We have let her play off leash at the park. We started bumper training this week. (dropping a bumper, walking away and then pointing and saying dead bird and she gets it and comes back) She was taking to it very well...but we probably made a big mistake letting her roam free at the park. Today she took off like the wind and ran as hard as she could ignoring our calls. Once she wore herself out she came back. We are afraid to take her back to practise. Our basic obedience trainer had said not to ever let them runoffleash until they always come when called. Soooo how do we burn off her energy if she can never go for a good run? We are not sure if today was a result of not getting to really run all week and just walks and bumper training.
Any thoughts?

You did not indicate whether you train with an ecollar?
One non-ecollar option is to condition the response to the here command:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbKUL1FQlts
And insist the here response is a lifetime habit, with 100 percent obedience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0e8-ydO_-I

Hope that helps.

Skeeter

 

[crackerd]

What is the "bumper training" for? - did you find this forum, rtf, by googling "retriever training" or are you intending to use your toller as a working retriever? Experience attests that's not a matter of semantics when such questions are posed to toller owners.

MG

 

[Cass]

Parks are generally not a great place for training if the basics haven't been instilled. Excellent for proofing behaviors but sounds like you are not at that stage. You should work more with your obedience trainer. At 10 months your dog should have a pretty solid foundation in obedience. If you want to let the dog run around and burn off steam do it in an area like a field or out in the woods. Unless you feel she'd run off... in that case, free running shouldn't be a priority. Obedience should be. You can walk her on a leash to take the edge off.

 

[crackerd]

Cass, is the inquisitor anyone of your acquaintance, or somebody whose toller has a similar "owner problem?"

MG

 

[Cass]

No I do not know the OP. I can understand their frustration though hahahaha. Although from my limited experience with a toller I wouldn't be too worried about letting it run. The one I work with looks like its sedated compared to my busy cocker. A walk and mental stimulation should be more than enough.

 

[Murphy]

Thanks, this is helpful and may combine with some advice from others below.

 

[Murphy]

Not using an ecollar. Liked the videos...

 

[Murphy]

Training for duck hunting.

 

[Murphy]

Cass - if we let her roam through the woods, are we then teaching her that when it comes time for duck hunting in the swamp, that she can just run wild? I guess I'm seeing some wisdom in K9Kodi's post...when I just want her to run then let her be, but when I want her to work and train I should treat her differently in terms of commands. Do you think that will work? We are in Hamilton/Niagara area. Whereabouts are you located?

 

[Cass]

Dogs can learn many things. My dog free runs, bird hunts, duck hunts, and shed hunts. He knows the difference between all these things. I would imagine most people allow their dogs free running time. But I would not be worried about that quite yet. Sounds like what you really need to do is get serious with obedience first. You mentioned you have an obedience trainer so I think you need to really heed their advice. I am in Belleville.

 

[K9kodi]

Cass - if we let her roam through the woods, are we then teaching her that when it comes time for duck hunting in the swamp, that she can just run wild? I guess I'm seeing some wisdom in K9Kodi's post...when I just want her to run then let her be, but when I want her to work and train I should treat her differently in terms of commands. Do you think that will work? We are in Hamilton/Niagara area. Whereabouts are you located?

You should always treat the dog the same way. When you give a command , make damn well sure its followed through. This is If you tell her to sit in the living room, heel while walking, or obey a whistle while hunting. A command is a command. My point was, if you want to let her be a dog, that's okay, but if she isn't at the level for off leash obedience, don't fall to the temptation of giving commands while they are "being a dog" bc theres a very good chance your gonna get the middle finger. A lot of hours go into getting a dog to the point of being off leash. E collars are great for this, because if they are needing a little "what fer" when they are a little ways away, a little bump on the collar seems to do the trick,
A lot of people for some reason, want their dogs to do well, and in doing so tend to trust their dogs too soon and before the dog shows them they are ready to be trusted. When you have your dog out on a 100' line, and you can call them and get your dog back without having to pick up the line or tug on it......your doing something and progressing as needed.
I let my pups run around on a long line, then ill call them with a recall and start running backwards while pulling the line as fast as I can. I give them one command and pull the line as fast as I can. When they get to me its huge praise, then I just let them be a dog again and sniff around or do what ever they want. A few minutes later, I recall and pull as fast as I can. Eventually the dog wont want to be tugged and come faster then you can pull, and they should do so for 2 reasons......they don't want to be tugged, and because you make it so much fun when they do get to you. When you can do this with the line at your feet it times to add conflict. Toys in the way, other people in the yard, other dogs, and still reinforce physically your verbal command. you are adding conflict and proofing it. Then is where I add the e-collar

 

[Eric Johnson]

I would use a check cord of about 20-25 feet with her whether you are actually training or is just free time. That way you only need to get within 25 feet of her to start to gather her in as necessary.

Which side of the river are you on? A training partner could help a great deal and there are folks there with Tollers who use the dog in both pursuits. For instance, you dropping the bumper and going back to her is a very different situation from throwing the bumper while at her side to control her. Eventually you might do this when training alone but for now, being able to station the thrower at any distance and still control the dog has real advantages.

I would not rush into an ecollar based upon words on a BBS. Tollers have a different pace of learning and the pace seen around here tends to be the other retrievers.

 

[DarrinGreene]

get.an.ecollar and a trainer who knows how to use one...

you can solve the problem in a matter of weeks, months or potentially years...

the tools/methods used will determine whether or not your dog is ready to duck hunt any time before retirement

 

[Cass]

Darrin I have to disagree. An e-collar is a fantastic tool but it is just that - a tool. People train dogs every day without them its definitely possible. You need to know how to train a dog without one before you can train a dog with one effectively.

 

[polmaise]

Darrin I have to disagree. An e-collar is a fantastic tool but it is just that - a tool. People train dogs every day without them its definitely possible. You need to know how to train a dog without one before you can train a dog with one effectively.

Very astute' our Cass. Like most statements that are 'pc' they come across well in text.
Depends on many 'factors' ? I'm sure must agree (being pc here ) ..Like how many dogs and how many types and how many circumstances and how many situations has the statement had to text with authority or even understanding of them all. I have been training dogs of multiple breeds and multiple disciplines with multiple situations of people who own dogs for decades and I'm in the class of 'beginner' with every new one I meet .
.....
People train dogs to roll over without a clicker and without an e-collar,that is a fact.

I reckon you have to know what level 'you' (the individual handler) is willing to go to before you attempt to take 'fido' to that level that he/she may never achieve,and that's a fact.
So I agree with Darrin's original general statement .But that's just me.
Happy new year btw.

 

[RaeganW]

Our basic obedience trainer had said not to ever let them runoffleash until they always come when called. Soooo how do we burn off her energy if she can never go for a good run? We are not sure if today was a result of not getting to really run all week and just walks and bumper training.
Any thoughts?

Restrained recalls will get her better at coming when called and also allow her to run and burn off some energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFl9hhKUtb4

Person A holds the dog.
Person B shows the dog a great reward and jogs a little way away.
Person B calls the dog, Person A releases the dog.
Person B runs away from the dog, rewarding coming when called with a game of chase and then the great reward once the dog catches up.

As the dog gets proficient, make it harder by being neutral while calling and running away from the dog after they commit to coming to you. Less teasing before calling, longer distances, past distractions.

If the two people playing are both people who will need to be able to call the dog, call the dog back and forth by switching who is holding and who is calling. Otherwise, have the original person come up and hold the dog while you run away again.

 

[K9kodi]

That is a great option as well. I kno when I'm training though I don't always have a partner. That is a great option though