[mjh345]

It is basically field trial rules with white coats and pros aren't allowed to run. A hunt test might put one on to let people try another game, or a field trial might have one so amateurs don't have to compete with pros as far as handling goes. That is the answer to what it is as far as I know.

pros can to run them

 

[mjh345]

Sorry if I come off as an a$$ whole

but the original post just sounds like whining to me. I have never seen an O/H qual in a regular field trial, only in conjunction of a hunt test and very few of those. Yes they are designed to attract new people to the trial game and I think it is a great idea. The HT Quals I have run tend to be somewhat easier than at a full trial and that's fine with me too but to say no pros in an O/H qual to me sucks. The major or "A" list pros will not be at a HT/Q and to answer Wayne's question to me a major pro would be a guy that makes a living at running trials and generally they don't even own a dog. The only pros you would shut out would be guys like me. Yes I am a pro but not a FT pro. I run my own dogs in trials and have run a few client dogs too but mainly I just do gun dogs. I don't want to be a FT pro. To be honest I don't know how they do it. I'm getting old and don't want to work that hard. I never even saw a trial until I was in my mid to late 40's and darn near 50 before I ever run one. Now if I would have gotten started at a young age I would be a FT pro.
An amateur running a O/H qual has nothing to fear from me unless they are not prepared to run a qual even though the dog I would run there has the capability of placing. To me if you want to play the FT game you need to be prepared for it. If you just want to dabble in the dog games stick to HT. There are many, many good amateurs out there that can give any "A" list pro a run for his money in any stake. I cant wait to retire so that I can concentrate on my own dogs. I will be a much better amateur than I am a pro when it comes to running trials. Yes we need new blood in the trial game but it is a competition and if you want to compete you need to be prepared. To shut out a pro like me with one or even two dogs in an O/H qual is ridiculous. In fact I think it is a good idea for new guys to run against a pro like me. I'm not the best out there but I have a couple good dogs and can compete so running against me just prepares a new person for the real world of field trials. I jammed my first open and I felt as if I had won the national. 11 dogs going into the 4th series and all but one other and my 2 1/2 yr old dog where FC or AFC. Talk about a rush. I watched Shaq (close to a 200 point AA dog) go down on the water blind in front of me then me and my dog got it done. Awesome feeling. Get chicken skins just flashing back on that.
Sorry if I got a little defensive. As Wayne said this is a good topic for debate/discussion and this is my view.

I can respect that view and admit your situation as not a full on competition based pro (HT or FT) is different and not exactly what I'm targeting.

What is your opinion of an A list HT pro that owns a couple dogs runs countless HT's a year, goes to a OH and wins it, is that in the spirit of the stake?

I see these 3 words "AND WINS IT" as key words in your post
What difference does that make as to your "in the spirit of the stake" issue? If he bombs out in the first series does he now meet the "spirit of the stake"?
If he actually owns the dog is the only thing that matters.
The rule book can't and shouldn't attempt to define subjective issues such as who is an A list pro "spirit of the stake" or other such nonsense

 

[mjh345]

I see these 3 words "AND WINS IT" as key words in your post
What difference does that make as to your "in the spirit of the stake" issue? If he bombs out in the first series does he now meet the "spirit of the stake"?
If he actually owns the dog is the only thing that matters.
The rule book can't and shouldn't attempt to define subjective issues such as who is an A list pro "spirit of the stake" or other such nonsense

It should not define "in the spirit of the stake"? Was the rule not created for a reason? Were OH Am's not created for a reason, and maybe I'm all wet, but a pretty similar reason? No I do not think if he bombs out in the first it meets the "spirit of the stake" I do however consider it poetic justice.

Apparently according to you the rule book shouldn't define "In the spirit of the stake":.... but you can?!?@?

O/H Am's were created for a reason, however this thread isn't dealing with that category. It is discussing an O/H qual.
Not an O/H Am Qual

 

[mjh345]

Why the hostility, Joe?

A few comments:

1. Darren is a dedicated young man. He trains his own dog regularly. He works at Field Trials. He judges. He has an opinion that differs from yours. No need to call him names because he disagrees.

2. When the issue of the O/H Qual came up for a vote, the issue was clubs having very large Q with many pro run dogs. Clubs wanted a tool to reduce numbers. They also wanted to promote Amateur participation. I don't remember anyone anticipating the issue of pros running dogs in the O/H Q. I will say that given the arguments for an O/H Q that in my mind pros running in the O/H Q do seem to me to violate the "spirit" of the proposal that the clubs voted on.

3. I think that a similar thing has happened with the National Derby Championship. When it was first proposed, I think that there was a limit of three (3) dogs per handler. The reason for that limitation was to promote the new Amateur, to give him/her the "National" experience, and hook him/her on the sport. Now, the limit is five (5) dogs per handler, which I think is more discouraging to the newcomer, but furthers the economic viability of the event.

I personally think we ought to be looking for ways to encourage newcomers (and especially Amateurs) to become involved in the sport.

Is this a fight that I am emotionally invested in? No.

But, I think Darren is getting a bum rap.

Ted

I said my piece in post 47. I don't feel the need to defend myself further. Damn the pro regards.

"Damn the pro regards"???
WOW Joe just Wow
A couple of things for you to consider

Do you realize HT' s were created for Ams?
.
Do you realize most hunt tests and field trials wouldn't happen without people like Ted and Darren and myself putting them on free of charge ?

Would it affect your income if we decided to quit doing this thankless non paying jobs?


Did you pay attention to it when Darren told you that he's never run and owner Handler qual?

Don't you believe your clients would be better served with training their dogs now rather than arguing on the internet?

Are you a member of the prta?

Do you think that being a pro involves more than just charging money?