I was searching entry express for an AKC hunt test and came upon one that had a "Owner/Handler Qualifying" stake in addition to the normal Master, senior, Jr hunt test stakes. Could someone educate me as to what exactly is involved in this stake? I assume it is a FT type setup?
Owner/Handler Qualifying
jwilliams38930
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I was searching entry express for an AKC hunt test and came upon one that had a "Owner/Handler Qualifying" stake in addition to the normal Master, senior, Jr hunt test stakes. Could someone educate me as to what exactly is involved in this stake? I assume it is a FT type setup?
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Kind of an amped up master setup. Usually four series. Land marks, land blind, water blind and water marks. Competing against other dogs for placements. Callbacks after each series. It's a good place to start in trials if you have a finished dog and want to test out a trial. When I judge minor stakes like Q's and derbies, I try to call back as many dogs as time will permit. It's usually a lot of fun to run them if you are competitive.
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If you going to cross-over. The setup are longer true, more technical (somewhat true) just depends on who is judging masters 
. The thing that freaked my dogs-me out. Was there's no calling in the field, no handlers gun, and they shoot way before they throw the bird; not at the ark. Wouldn't think this would make a difference; what with white marshmallows standing out there; but if your dogs are used to the cadance of masters. They might be bouncing from white to white to white, and miss the birds going down, because there's a shot a very LOUD popper (which usually echos behind you), but no bird. It's slow enough for a dog to move to the next station or focus on the echo, if the handler doesn't hold their focus on the station for the throw. Practice the cadence and holding youR dog on each station. They are liking those new gas poppers, they seem to take forever to prime, shoot-set down, making it even longer for the bird to actually get in the air. I've also noticed they seem to prefer hand throws, over wingers most of the time.
. The thing that freaked my dogs-me out. Was there's no calling in the field, no handlers gun, and they shoot way before they throw the bird; not at the ark. Wouldn't think this would make a difference; what with white marshmallows standing out there; but if your dogs are used to the cadance of masters. They might be bouncing from white to white to white, and miss the birds going down, because there's a shot a very LOUD popper (which usually echos behind you), but no bird. It's slow enough for a dog to move to the next station or focus on the echo, if the handler doesn't hold their focus on the station for the throw. Practice the cadence and holding youR dog on each station. They are liking those new gas poppers, they seem to take forever to prime, shoot-set down, making it even longer for the bird to actually get in the air. I've also noticed they seem to prefer hand throws, over wingers most of the time.
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Most of the O/Hs I have run, have ben closer to QAA than MH. True, judges will usually carry more dogs than they might normally. Also true, they are a lot of fun, very welcoming and a chance to really learn how your dog will react to factors in the field.
Main adjustment my dog had to make was learning to look out deeper in the field. Main adjustment I had to make: swallow my ego!
Main adjustment my dog had to make was learning to look out deeper in the field. Main adjustment I had to make: swallow my ego!
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The O/H I ran was as tough as the other qualifyings I have run.
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It's a qualifying stake and you'll likely run against pros just like you normally would.
They are a lot of fun! Ive run only one because there arent a lot of clubs willing to do them. I know there are 2 coming up 10/12 in Lavergne and 11/9 in Greensboro. The one i ran was great. The judges were extremely helpful and gave you plenty of time to get the dog settled on the birds. It was way more technical than a Master test. Ive run 2 other Qs and they were comparable. There were pros running their own dogs, but a lot of amateurs too. i run every one i can find.
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Not a lot in an owner/handler Q.
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It is a field trial stake, so get familiar with field trial rules. Should be the same as any qualifying stake at a field trial. I’ve run qualifying stakes at field trials that were weak master setups and I’ve run qualifying stakes that would be good amateur all-age tests. Depends on the judges, the grounds, and to some extent the field of entries. Judges try to get separation in performance between dogs. A strong field of dogs will generally require tougher tests to get that separation.
As Bubba said, I like to bring back as many dogs as I can, with time always being a concern. As with other stakes, there are certain things that require elimination (see rules), but everything short of that is judgement. A very accomplished pro trainer told me one time, if your dog’s performance in a series isn’t in the top 1/2 of the field, you should be worried about being dropped. Keeping that thought in your head will keep your expectations in check.
As Bubba said, I like to bring back as many dogs as I can, with time always being a concern. As with other stakes, there are certain things that require elimination (see rules), but everything short of that is judgement. A very accomplished pro trainer told me one time, if your dog’s performance in a series isn’t in the top 1/2 of the field, you should be worried about being dropped. Keeping that thought in your head will keep your expectations in check.
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The pros that do run are hunt test pros running their personal dogs. Some are very good.
The O/H does partially negate the advantage many field trial pros have of running the setup several times. Most of the handlers will have one dog. Rarely does anyone run more than 2 or 3. You will see very good handlers with very good dogs and will have to be on your game to be in the color.
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Depends on your circuit, I guess? Several of our good local FT pros own or co-own dogs and run the O/H Q. Not complaining, just trying to help the OP not be surprised.
It's not the open but it's not the amateur either lol
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Do you intend to enter? If your dog can do triples with one retired, run a blind past bird crates, do a respectable water blind and then a water triple without handling, give it a go.
If you don't train regularly on marks with white guns (instead of hidden guns and calls) you will be at a disadvantage.
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If I remember correctly your from central Mississippi so feel free to come join us for training some time and we'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. Advise from an internet forum is great but we can show you first hand what qual marks and blinds look like.
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I am not sure. The test (Central Ark) falls on a weekend that I am not sure if I am going to be free from work. And per all of your descriptions, I am at a disadvantage as we only train with hidden winger stations. And, I know we can do all of the required work, but what dog gets off the truck that day will dictate how cleanly we can run it. And with work and life in the way lately, we are only getting to train once or twice a week right now. So being able to stretch him out to FT distances and still focus on finishing the HT titles in that short of time will be harder than I probably have time to do with any competency. I am a rank armature at this after all.
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Daniel,
When do you all train and how do you "spread the word" about training days? Starkville is only about an hour from the house. And I've been driving 1.5 - 2hrs to train with other clubs lately.
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I train pretty regular in and around Starkville but mostly on drills, concepts, and such. Fishduck and I train most weekends and some days after work near Vernon Alabama. This isn't a club or official group of any type just a couple of hack amateurs trying to make better dogs. Give me a call or text and we can discuss details, 337-304-3575.
You definately want to train with visable guns in the field. Many dogs not used to seeing gunners will look at a gun, then switch to another gun, then back. they need to learn to be shown all the guns then which one to settle on for the first throw.
In addition, even hunt test dogs can benefit from using visible guns (IMHO), if you are teaching concept marks, or running blind close to guns, a visable gun can help make the concept clearer to the dog and they understand it better even when the gun are later hidden.
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All the ones I've ran, it's the same people who run the regular FT Qual. There are some hunt-testers, but it's mostly the FT set that trains on it all the time. Most people will not double stake MH and the O/H maybe 10-15% cross-over. Others are correct it seems to be something the HT pros, like to run (you know dogs that already have 30+ MH passes). I'm not familiar with FT pros vs. Ams. I'd assume FT pros are there; would be a good bet with a handler running several dogs with no HT titles. Most of the HT type seem to only run 1, maybe 2 dogs in it. So if your going with the idea of winning it or getting 2nd=QAA, you'll have to be very good on your game. If your going just to experience, that's something else. Talk to the people in the area that run the FT Qual, also ask them about the judges (judges have quirks, and the FT peeps already know what they are). Some judges are very good about letting people play, giving out Jams etc. Others are cut it down to the bone and get it done. If you think you might enjoy it you should do it. Another item to consider, they usually run a day before or same day as the MH. If you looking to qualify for the MAI, or are still pursuing MH passes, It might not be great idea to double stake the dog in such widely different venues. It really depends on the dog. I have one I could double stake and one who if she got a dose of the FT distance-excitement wouldn't be up to MH line manner standards the next day
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So give them a white shirt and have them step out and throw manually for your dog. Many groups change up training tests for the handlers and dogs. You need to expose your dog to look past short white gunners to long white gunners. I've seen doubles where the HT dogs never see the long gun because they are staring at the short gunners in white.
All the OH Quals I have seen have been judged by judges who also judge regular Quals and they aren't any easier other than by virtue of excluding pros who don't own the dogs from running.
Don't worry about what some are saying here that have only run a couple of quals at their home club and about figuring out the judges. You have to expose the dogs to white shirts and triples with a retired gun and longer blinds. Go watch some quals.
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Many hunt test trainers get hung up on training hidden guns and never give a thought to training with standout guns in white or setting their remotes out with visable white stick men. However, there are benefits if you do. Too many to list. Even beneficial for hunt testers who will never run FT's.
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