Hey all quick question. The last couple of days my dog has done this 2 or 3 times and it aggravates me. He has popped while hunting an area. If he doesn't find the ball/bumper after hunting for a bit he will come back part way and sit - looking to be handled. I do not want this to get any worse so I am backing off all retrieves until I know how to go forward. He did it once a couple of days ago and twice today while just out play retrieving to burn off some energy (I will chuck an orange tennis ball so it forces him to use his nose and not his eyes). The first time I shouted for him to get back and when he did it the second time I turned my back so he would go off on his own. When he finally found the ball and brought it to hand I called it a day as I didn't want another opportunity for that issue to present itself. I plan on trialing in the fall so I am terrified of messing him up. Is popping curable? What is my plan of action moving forward? The obvious action is to cease this game which I am doing - I just thought it was an easy way to burn off some steam throughout the day when not training but clearly it was a poor choice.
Popping?
Cass
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Hey all quick question. The last couple of days my dog has done this 2 or 3 times and it aggravates me. He has popped while hunting an area. If he doesn't find the ball/bumper after hunting for a bit he will come back part way and sit - looking to be handled. I do not want this to get any worse so I am backing off all retrieves until I know how to go forward. He did it once a couple of days ago and twice today while just out play retrieving to burn off some energy (I will chuck an orange tennis ball so it forces him to use his nose and not his eyes). The first time I shouted for him to get back and when he did it the second time I turned my back so he would go off on his own. When he finally found the ball and brought it to hand I called it a day as I didn't want another opportunity for that issue to present itself. I plan on trialing in the fall so I am terrified of messing him up. Is popping curable? What is my plan of action moving forward? The obvious action is to cease this game which I am doing - I just thought it was an easy way to burn off some steam throughout the day when not training but clearly it was a poor choice.
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Hey Evan - he's 18 months old and has been through basic obedience, CC,FF, and FTP. Currently doing casting and incorporating doubles. He is not a retriever - he's an english cocker but most of his training so far has revolved around retriever training since that is what I had access to. I have met with someone within a couple hours of me that I am starting training with next week so he will be getting more birds starting then. I live in town and cannot keep a loft so I generally buy half a dozen pigeons at a time and keep them in a small crate and use them up within a week He certainly is not getting enough bird work yet though - especially for a spaniel. Luckily this is going to change. This popping issue is the first I have seen it. I do not use the tennis balls for training - I have one of those "chuck-it" things and use it sporadically if he is stir crazy in the house just to help burn off some energy. I'll whip a few balls out in the back yard or in the field so he can run. I have been using the orange balls lately to force him to use his nose more - plus he has to hunt for it longer since he can't just mark it and it tires him out quicker. Looks like I have to rethink my exercise game so it doesn't interfere with his training.
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You didn't give a lot of details, age or where the dog is in his training but it sounds like a dog that has been handled or helped on too many marks. Young dogs will sometimes run to the area of the fall, not find what they are looking for and head back in but it sounds like your dog has been handled and is smart enough to be a little lazy. There are a dozen different drills to keep a dog in the area of the fall but actually you handled it just about right. Find it, hunt it up,turning your back on him and waiting him out, or any variation to let the dog know it's his job not yours. When he does this throw him another mark that will reinforce that he did his job correctly. If you have help, do a search on dirt clod drills. Good luck with your dog.
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With that to go on, which Bruce correctly mentioned isn't much, it would seem to me that there may not be enough in it for the dog. Spend a week or two marking in little or no cover with real birds (You can freeze and re use the dead pigeons), and make sure he meets with success on a regular basis. Without more training detail it's hard to suggest much else. But if he expects to be handled too often (no way of knowing), or if he's going to far, or in too much cover, he may simply expect to fail, and is quitting. Hence the pop.
Evan
Evan
Don't know how old your dog is but must be older than 6-8 months if you plan on trials this fall. Why are you using tennis balls? If my dog brought me back a tennis ball while hunting or trialing, I'd be pissed. Use a pigeon or something with more scent. Do not handle on pops, let him figure it out. Start doing dirt clog drills to keep him in the area and hunting.After you have done some dirt clog drills and don't handle on pops you are going to have to put collar pressure on him if he continues to pop. I use direct pressure, as soon as he pops I burn and say fetch, as soon as he gets up I let go of button. Does he pop during regular training sessions? If not quit the play sessions or do it on short grass.If he hasn"t popped during training he will eventually either on difficult marks or on blinds, get ahead of this problem NOW.Good luck Guy Also don"t know what kind of set ups you do but may want to simplify and only do singles for awhile.
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Sorry dogguy can you explain dirt clog drills to me? And yes, he is 18 months. the tennis balls were just for play, I will quit doing that and start using birds more. He has never popped during training which is why I was quick to ask about this as I do not want it to happen then!
You need a partner for this drill. In medium cover have dog on line and have partner throw a huge dirt clog, about 50yds. away, send dog for retrieve, he won;t find anything so will start hunting, as hunting area gets larger have partner yell and throw another dirt clog.You"re looking for him to hunt a fairly tight area.After he's thrown a few dirt clogs have him slip a bird or bumper in hunt area without dog seeing, he will now find bird and be successful after a great amount of work. Teaches him not to give up hunt tight and depend on his nose. Do this drill twice a week for a few weeks. Also a good tune up drill for older seasoned dogs about once every 6months.
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My own experience and what I observe that causes this: 1) Handling on marks 2) Handling young dogs in the field. Old school, no handling until older 3) Handling before marking skills are developed.
If I had this problem I would simplify, do singles, and ask someone with experience to look at your dog.
If I had this problem I would simplify, do singles, and ask someone with experience to look at your dog.
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I don’t think the dirt clod drill is appropriate for a spaniel that you intend to run trials with. It is intended to teach the dog to stay in the area of a fall even if he doesn’t find the bird. In a Spaniel trial, a live bird is shot, often at the extreme range of a shotgun, and sometimes they run off. A spaniel is expected to trail the bird to make the retrieve. You don’t want to discourage leaving the AOF to the degree a retriever trainer would.
I have seen what you’re describing with several spaniels at about this age. He is gaining trust in you & is asking you for help. You just need to let him know that you expect him to find it on his own.
To discourage the behavior, I try to read the pup & let him hunt as long as he’s generally in the area. If he just can’t find the bird, go out & help him before he asks for help.
If I wait too long & the dog “pops” as you describe, I make a big scene. I throw my hat at him & scream at him to “GET BACK OUT THERE!!” letting him know in no uncertain terms that I will not allow him to give up until I blow the whistle.
I have never had to do this more than a couple times with any dog before they get the message.
I have seen what you’re describing with several spaniels at about this age. He is gaining trust in you & is asking you for help. You just need to let him know that you expect him to find it on his own.
To discourage the behavior, I try to read the pup & let him hunt as long as he’s generally in the area. If he just can’t find the bird, go out & help him before he asks for help.
If I wait too long & the dog “pops” as you describe, I make a big scene. I throw my hat at him & scream at him to “GET BACK OUT THERE!!” letting him know in no uncertain terms that I will not allow him to give up until I blow the whistle.
I have never had to do this more than a couple times with any dog before they get the message.
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1) get ride of the ball.
2) most Cocker's do not do well with contentious pressure. Bad idea.
3) I would do some sight retrieves ( Bare ground ) for a few sessions
4) Like Dave said, if you see them leaving the fall area never handle. Walk out yell HAY, tell them to fetch it up and through your hand out to the fall area.
5) use more live birds.
Keith
2) most Cocker's do not do well with contentious pressure. Bad idea.
3) I would do some sight retrieves ( Bare ground ) for a few sessions
4) Like Dave said, if you see them leaving the fall area never handle. Walk out yell HAY, tell them to fetch it up and through your hand out to the fall area.
5) use more live birds.
Keith
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I just finished one out and she got her FC in two seasons. I never con her onceBest to 'Con a Cocker' ! Rather than yell or show them 'anyway'! (imo)
Difference being that ''They'' know more than those seeking truth or Lies
just made everything clear. and it was with her AM newbe handler to.Keith
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I don't quite understand the context of this question. If it was a mark the dog sees the fall. No need to handleHave you been handling on marks for this wee dog Cass? (Honestly) ?
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