What is it exactly? How do you know a dog has it or doesn't? Is it something that is either there or not, or can it be brought out?
Prey Drive
RailRoadRetrievers
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What is it exactly? How do you know a dog has it or doesn't? Is it something that is either there or not, or can it be brought out?
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Prey Drive....instinct to give chase - or to go after prey.....is usually evident at a young age, but not always..
drug, bomb, and protection dogs must all have a lot of prey drive....it is intensified with the proper training...same can be said for our retrievers.....
Juli
drug, bomb, and protection dogs must all have a lot of prey drive....it is intensified with the proper training...same can be said for our retrievers.....
Juli
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I like Sky-views definition. Also, I read some research that indicates dogs determine what is not a prey species very early in life depending on their socialization as puppies. This is where you see great photos of dogs and squirrels and cats all napping together.
I'll start a short list of behaviors that I believe indicate prey drive. How high is high is kind of subjective though. Anybody can add their own.
* Alerting at moving critters, other than dogs (be careful with this one, I've seen 'prey aggression' directed in dog-to-dog situation.)
* Stalking behavior.
I'll start a short list of behaviors that I believe indicate prey drive. How high is high is kind of subjective though. Anybody can add their own.
* Alerting at moving critters, other than dogs (be careful with this one, I've seen 'prey aggression' directed in dog-to-dog situation.)
* Stalking behavior.
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You can actually separate the drives even further:
Prey drive- following what is moving
Hunt drive- the desire to find prey even if it is not moving
"drug, bomb, and protection dogs must all have a lot of prey drive....it is intensified with the proper training...same can be said for our retrievers....."
Protection dogs are worked in prey drive, as in: the perp is running, must go and bite the perp, pleeeese let me go bite the moving target.
Hunt drive is much more important in drug, bomb, and SAR dog. They rarely get to see the target moving. Their hunt drive must be very high in order to target the scent source. That is why most of those dogs are retrievers, we've bred them to not stop until they find the bird. When dogs are trained for the other disciplines, the desire to find the bird is changed to the desire to find the bomb, the drug, the lost person, or the cadaver scent.
Kathleen
Prey drive- following what is moving
Hunt drive- the desire to find prey even if it is not moving
"drug, bomb, and protection dogs must all have a lot of prey drive....it is intensified with the proper training...same can be said for our retrievers....."
Protection dogs are worked in prey drive, as in: the perp is running, must go and bite the perp, pleeeese let me go bite the moving target.
Hunt drive is much more important in drug, bomb, and SAR dog. They rarely get to see the target moving. Their hunt drive must be very high in order to target the scent source. That is why most of those dogs are retrievers, we've bred them to not stop until they find the bird. When dogs are trained for the other disciplines, the desire to find the bird is changed to the desire to find the bomb, the drug, the lost person, or the cadaver scent.
Kathleen
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Let me add to that.............
Hunt drive as it relates to bomb, drugs etc......... I have seen them tested and have a number of dogs into these jobs.The tests are "would the dog climb the stairs or slide down the other side on a playground slide,or walk/run a crocked wooden bridge,go under a truck/car that the engine is running,dig out a bumber from under a milkcrate for what ???????A BUMBER!! They are all rewarded with something to retrieve. (rolled-up towels, tennis balls, bumbers)They guys don't find the bombs or the bad guy,the lost boy, the drugs without their reward.
My own personal hunting buddies all enjoy the retrieve as much as the drive to find the bird for me to shoot. What they hate the most is when I miss the shot!!!!!!!!!!!
Then I get the dirty looks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hunt drive as it relates to bomb, drugs etc......... I have seen them tested and have a number of dogs into these jobs.The tests are "would the dog climb the stairs or slide down the other side on a playground slide,or walk/run a crocked wooden bridge,go under a truck/car that the engine is running,dig out a bumber from under a milkcrate for what ???????A BUMBER!! They are all rewarded with something to retrieve. (rolled-up towels, tennis balls, bumbers)They guys don't find the bombs or the bad guy,the lost boy, the drugs without their reward.
My own personal hunting buddies all enjoy the retrieve as much as the drive to find the bird for me to shoot. What they hate the most is when I miss the shot!!!!!!!!!!!
Then I get the dirty looks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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This makes me laugh. I was hunting one morning and had a good group of mallards working the decoys. They were just about to land and I started shooting......they all flew away. I looked over to woody and he was looking at me as if to say " you non shoot'n s.o.b." I will never forget that look.
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is disinterest in dead birds a sign, zero interest unless FF with the bird other than that, no interest what so ever. Is that a sign of lack of prey drive?
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prey drive is giving chase...does the dog go after a live bird? such as clipped wing pigeon?
what do you meant by disinterest...is the dog showing any type of fear or uncertainty? Or does the dog just kinda smell the bird and then walk away?
Sharron P. posted about putting live quail (chukar would likely work too) into a dog's kennel and leaving it there until the dog got hungry and finally killed and ate the bird...keep in mind this dog had already proven it had prey drive and bird instinct..but had a bad mishap with a firearm while hunting which made it fearful of birds.....
Still, I would think that you could feed the dog some freshly killed quail for a few days..strict diet of birds only, then move to live quail and let the dog chase and kill it...nothing like the 'survival' instinct to kick in prey drive.....
Juli
what do you meant by disinterest...is the dog showing any type of fear or uncertainty? Or does the dog just kinda smell the bird and then walk away?
Sharron P. posted about putting live quail (chukar would likely work too) into a dog's kennel and leaving it there until the dog got hungry and finally killed and ate the bird...keep in mind this dog had already proven it had prey drive and bird instinct..but had a bad mishap with a firearm while hunting which made it fearful of birds.....
Still, I would think that you could feed the dog some freshly killed quail for a few days..strict diet of birds only, then move to live quail and let the dog chase and kill it...nothing like the 'survival' instinct to kick in prey drive.....
Juli
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what do you meant by disinterest...is the dog showing any type of fear or uncertainty? Or does the dog just kinda smell the bird and then walk away?
She smells the birds and swims right on past and heads back to shore.
She smells the birds and swims right on past and heads back to shore.
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Depends, was she FF on that particular bird?
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"give more background on her abilities"
Okay, let me see where I should begin, she is yellow, if she was chocolate I could understand the problem much more, but that isn't it.
She has pretty good marking abilities, listens pretty good, learns extremely quickly. I am on FTP right now and a little bit stumped, but shall move forward I am certain. She has been exposed to dove, small waterfowl (mergansers), and woodies this morning. First experience with dove, same thing, she didn't want to retrieve them, applied a little bit of pressure she was all about it, land, water, air, she didn't care.
This would be her second experience hunting, so I am not going to expect a heck of a lot out of her, but I just don't get it. Most dogs I have worked with or been around have been nutso over dead birds, live birds, dying birds, they liked birds.
Knocked down two mergansers, she didn't see either, all the shooting going on all around us, new environment, all the noise, she tends to lose concentration and I don't think she has quite grown accustom (she don't like it none) to the big shots of a shotgun as oppose to the shots from my blank pistol. My fault for that and I will work more with retrieves with a shotgun being used instead of the other.
The first duck I lined her up, said back, she went right to the white belly (she was going to leave it, I bumped her with the collar and gave a "fetch") and she brought it back. The next time I lined her up on the second, she swam right to it, she was going to leave it again, I bumped her, she turned and swam back, I sent her again, same thing. I waded out there half way, she did the same thing again. She did not want to get the bird. Finally I figured I had gotten a little hard on her in the process, lightened the mood with a few bumper retrieves. Sent her again for the duck, she tried to avoid it, I bumped her and she picked it up.
This morning I had her staked back behind me so I wouldn't be shooting right on top of her, she wasn't paying much attention (due to the gun fire and such). I let her off the lead, she swam right next to me, gave her the "hunt it up" routine and she located the bird before I did (fell in some brush in the water), gave her the fetch, she refused, gave her the command, bump with the collar, she went for it, then decided she didn't like it.
I got the birds out of the water, met her on the bank and introduced her to wood ducks, took about five minutes total, but she was retrieving them out of the water with enthusiasm when I was tossing them.
I don't get it...
Okay, let me see where I should begin, she is yellow, if she was chocolate I could understand the problem much more, but that isn't it.
She has pretty good marking abilities, listens pretty good, learns extremely quickly. I am on FTP right now and a little bit stumped, but shall move forward I am certain. She has been exposed to dove, small waterfowl (mergansers), and woodies this morning. First experience with dove, same thing, she didn't want to retrieve them, applied a little bit of pressure she was all about it, land, water, air, she didn't care.
This would be her second experience hunting, so I am not going to expect a heck of a lot out of her, but I just don't get it. Most dogs I have worked with or been around have been nutso over dead birds, live birds, dying birds, they liked birds.
Knocked down two mergansers, she didn't see either, all the shooting going on all around us, new environment, all the noise, she tends to lose concentration and I don't think she has quite grown accustom (she don't like it none) to the big shots of a shotgun as oppose to the shots from my blank pistol. My fault for that and I will work more with retrieves with a shotgun being used instead of the other.
The first duck I lined her up, said back, she went right to the white belly (she was going to leave it, I bumped her with the collar and gave a "fetch") and she brought it back. The next time I lined her up on the second, she swam right to it, she was going to leave it again, I bumped her, she turned and swam back, I sent her again, same thing. I waded out there half way, she did the same thing again. She did not want to get the bird. Finally I figured I had gotten a little hard on her in the process, lightened the mood with a few bumper retrieves. Sent her again for the duck, she tried to avoid it, I bumped her and she picked it up.
This morning I had her staked back behind me so I wouldn't be shooting right on top of her, she wasn't paying much attention (due to the gun fire and such). I let her off the lead, she swam right next to me, gave her the "hunt it up" routine and she located the bird before I did (fell in some brush in the water), gave her the fetch, she refused, gave her the command, bump with the collar, she went for it, then decided she didn't like it.
I got the birds out of the water, met her on the bank and introduced her to wood ducks, took about five minutes total, but she was retrieving them out of the water with enthusiasm when I was tossing them.
I don't get it...
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You are putting the cart before the horse...and expecting far too much..have you even done force to water yet? Why would you expect her to have a good attitude about water retrieves if she keeps getting 'bumped' every time she gets wet? I doubt she fully understands water force... you should not force during a hunting situation.......
Your pup is overwhelmed you are asking her to do a lot of things all at once, and it sounds like many of them, she is uncertain about........you are working toward a dog that dislikes hunting, not one that enjoys it....
I would discontinue using her for hunting for now and focus on just one thing at a time...first birdiness - using live birds if you can - get her LOVING birds....if at all possible do not force her on birds....if that means letting her break, letting her eat one or two or kill a couple, whatever.....let 'her' make the decision to really love birds....
Then get her introduced correctly to the shotgun....there are many posts on this.....
This is not going to be a 7 day 'fix' - it could be a several 'week' fix...if not more....
Juli
Your pup is overwhelmed you are asking her to do a lot of things all at once, and it sounds like many of them, she is uncertain about........you are working toward a dog that dislikes hunting, not one that enjoys it....
I would discontinue using her for hunting for now and focus on just one thing at a time...first birdiness - using live birds if you can - get her LOVING birds....if at all possible do not force her on birds....if that means letting her break, letting her eat one or two or kill a couple, whatever.....let 'her' make the decision to really love birds....
Then get her introduced correctly to the shotgun....there are many posts on this.....
This is not going to be a 7 day 'fix' - it could be a several 'week' fix...if not more....
Juli
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