[Evan]

What Smartwork materials do you have? If you have the Puppy Program DVD it shows how to CC a pup. The one on the video turned 4 months old the day we shot the footage. I think you should wait a week or two on that, however. In the meantime make or buy a training rope about 50-75 feet long with a swivel snap to use for marks. If he's trying to escape so badly that you can't chase that down, it's time to settle it. You can play games if you like, but there is nothing harsh about the CC method shown.

Evan

 

[Evan]

I was just wondering if this is one of those rare issues that with a solid understanding of the command here, tends to work itself out . In the mean time I'll continue to keep it fun and reel him in when needed. Thanks for all the advice!

You're a week away from his being 4 months. If you think he's adequately mature to CC, go ahead. This isn't a huge issue. If you feel like waiting, what the heck; it's only a week?

Evan

 

[Evan]

I was just asking for others who have had this same situation, whether or not it went away.

To clear the air about one important point; when a dog runs away with what he's retrieved that is an obedience problem. Specifically, it's a training problem. Training problems go away through training, not time. If it matters as much as this one does, it should be trained through. Doing nothing about it will tend to result in its becoming worse, not better. You're ready. Do the work. You'll be glad you did.

Evan

 

[Evan]

I think Rick's question about it going away is - will the collar condition to here and the resulting formalization/solidification/increased reliability on the here command result in the running away with the bumper going away. The answer to that is yes, and if not then you have another tool to make it go away.

Make sure you follow Evan's process though and MAKE SURE you have completely collar conditioned the pup to HERE before you try to use it in the situation where the pup is not coming back with the bumper.

You DO want the pup to learn that not complying with a known command has consequences, and you want him to learn how to turn off the pressure by compliance with the known command - that's all good. However, if the pup doesn't understand that and gets a correction while retrieving that he doesn't understand, he could make the wrong connections. You want the pup to know that going and getting the bumper and bringing it back to you are all good things (in your mind that might be all one thing, but in pup's mind it is at least two). A correction while he's running away with the bumper (if he doesn't understand it) can be connected to getting the bumper or holding the bumper etc in the pup's mind.

I'd also use a rope first (Evan does this in his videos) to make sure the pup knows that going and getting the bumper and bringing it back to you is good. Pull the pup in with the rope (pops on the rope, not dragging him in like a fish if you can) while praising him even if most of the impetus for coming to you is you pulling on the rope at first. He's good because he's coming to you when called. Big praise when he gets to you, and don't snatch the bumper away - let him hold it and make a big fuss over him. Then increase the standard to require him to be coming to you on his own effort. Once he knows this is good, and he knows why he's getting the collar correction on here, and how to turn it off, then you can put them together.

What he said!

Evan

 

[Evan]

What he said

Is inaccurate. That isn't what the coursework teaches. Do the conditioning in the yard as outlined. The need for correction will all but vanish and/or be very rare.

Evan

 

[Evan]

Evan - all due respect it may be accurate or not. There are many factors no-one can be sure of, including you. I know guys that have read Golf Digest for 30 years and at best shaven 2 strokes of their 90's game because of it.

I am not a professional retriever trainer, nor have I written any books. But I can see the forest and the trees.

I appreciate understanding and allowing for certain variables, but I'm not sure why there should be a call for interrupting this pup's development due to a misconstruction of the coursework. It doesn't call for burning puppies on retrieve. It calls for conditioning the pup to "Here" thoroughly, and then going to the field with a pup far more eager to come when called.

A correction can be made if needed. But an overriding benefit of yard conditioning soundly before going back to the field is that the process itself reduces such instances exponentially. Am I making this clearer?

Evan

 

[Evan]

Evan can speak for himself, but I have that program (as well as TRT, and Fowldogs) and I don't see where he advocates using CC for a 15 week old puppy not returning from a retrieve.

You are correct Jerry. It does not. It is suggested that at 4 months an abbreviated e-collar conditioning to the command "Here" take place. It is not recommended or suggested anywhere in the program to "fix" or repair non-compliance in a pup, and it is not suggested until the pup is at least 4 months of age (16 weeks minimum). It is presented as a step in development, not a cure for insufficient or inadequate training.

Playing keep-away is as normal as breathing for a pup approaching that age. That's why I strongly urge trainers to use check cords and training ropes of sufficient length to manage returns until CC can be done. In the Smartwork coursework (which the OP is following), and at all seminars, we demonstrate the procedure, and anyone who has seen or done it can testify of the fact that there are no failures, nor bugged or suppressed puppies. Indeed, they end as happy, if not happier than they were at the beginning. Most of all, they are so eager to come to the handler that corrections are very rarely needed. Once that is in place the pup can begin running more meaningful marks during routine training sessions.

This process does not include amounts of pressure one might see when CC-ing an older more mature dog. There are enough variations in how different trainers e-collar condition that just using the term CC or collar conditioning summons a variety of mental images in different people. My approach to CC puppies has been grossly misrepresented in some of the posts here. It's very low key, and well received by a majority of pups.

Evan