All AFC means is the dog was handled by an amateur. The best current stud I've seen for producing dogs with that off switch is NAFC Grady. A lot depends on the bitch.

 

I think the reason most dogs are "only" an AFC is because they haven't gotten that Open win. I do know that I have a dog who was very close to his AFC and a great house dog. I'm sure a lot of the titled dogs out there are great house dogs as well as field dogs.

 

I just figure most FC dogs are with a pro so that quality is seldom looked at with them
but on other hand the right FC goes home to his folks once in a while .
Just kinda day dreaming on the perfect stud for when the time is right to marry my blf off

 

Most AFC dogs are also with pro's for most of their careers.
Looking at the initials in front of or behind a dogs name gives you no clue as to their personality and suitability as a house dog. You need to do your homework & ask questions about the individual dogs to get that info.

Good Luck Shawn

 

Some FC's lay around under the desk making it very hard to move so I can get out of the chair.

 

Not all! There is one here that is poking me with his nose because he knows its time for breakfast. And, the puppy and setter keep rolling over him while they play, and it really annoys him, so he has chosen to annoy me.

 

Shawn : your overall premise has a few flaws...first things first,you might want to get you gal to QAA or MH level, because there are a few of the better stud dogs that will not let you breed to their stud unless your gal is QAA or better

second you might want to see what bloodline MAY match up with your particular gal's bloodline, and then start looking for the stud dog that fits that profile

third, have your girl tested for EIC and CNM which may or may not eliminate which dogs you may want to use

you got plenty of time to do some homework and some due diligence

 

I ll have to try that．

 

One other thing you may want to consider before you breed is her titles, many people look at the dam first to see what she is capable of before they decide to go with a pup from your girl, another thing is derbies are for dogs under 2 years of age so you only have 6 months to compete in them, I would agree to get her a QAA, a MH or a SH good luck

Make sure she has her hips/elbows checked, EIC and CNM tested, get her eyes checked out, and if you want you can get her color factored to find out which color gene is dominant, it will help you tell which color pups she will have depending on which color the stud throws.

 

Dogs are a product of their environment. FC or AFC, MH, or HRCH. it doesn't matter. There a ton of FC's that are house dogs and there are a ton of AFC's that are kennel dogs.
And there is no inside dog gene!!!

 

Golden Boy, you and Breck & Ted need to take off your rose colored glasses.

Whereas the vast majority of Labs, including FT labs are teddy bears and are great in the house; there are a few that are not.

I know Shawn and know that he has young children in the home. Whether because of people and/or other pet aggression, hyperactivity or whatever, there are some Labs that are unsuitable as house pets.

I agree there is "no inside dog gene" per se. However there are a nnumber of traits that some labs exhibit that make them unsuitable as house pets; particularily in the instant case involving a home with young children.

These negative traits may be caused by environmental factors in their upbringing, or from a genetic predisposition; or a combination thereof. I doubt that it can be determined what part, if any, is genetic predisposition. However I feel it is prudent for a potential breeder such as Shawn to do his homework and eliminate any studs that exhibit these undesirable traits; unless someone could irrefutably prove that there was no genetic link

 

Dude....You’re as naive as the kid listening to the radio believing all of the music is being performed live. Whatever was going through your head forget about it.
Personally I don't know of any field champion, owned by someone who cares, who isn't a good house dog even if they're only home from their pro for a short while in the off season. The pros scratch the freekin' dogs ears too you know.
Dogs are situational and know which hat to put on whether crawling off of a couch in the morning, jumping into the truck to go training or seeing you grab the decoy bag.

 

I do plan on trying to put her mh title on her before she is breed (may have to go to a pro for awhile) . My thoughts where to start looking at studs now so I've goy time to follow a couple different studs now & yes ill have her health clearances done she is good by parentage on everything so a good start . I'm starting my homework now so its not a quick decision. I had a well breed dog ( river x cosmo ) I think and the dog was untolerable .I've never met an afc or fc so I didn't know what to expect as far as house temperament .
On a side note I've accomplished my original goal of JH and building a solid gundog .but if I can swing it she'll go to Texas for awhile before running any Derbys

 

I have had and have
- FC
- AFC
- Washout

Labs at home. All have been great in the home. If you raise a puppy properly, and then teach them how to be a good citizen, they will be good in the home, regardless of what titles that they may or may not have

 

Shawn, I am curious as to WHY you want to breed your girl, not yet knowing her potential or abilities. I am not a breeder, and I do respect the people that have the knowledge, the courage and the money to pursue such a hobby. You could buy a very nice dog for what it is going to cost you to produce one litter. And that is assuming no problems. I just choose to let those experienced breeders create the perfect dog for me without the cost and hassle. You can still do your homework and go watch the dogs run to see what you like before you pick your breeder or your litter. But I apologize if I am missing something. I am not being critical at all of your choice, just know there is an easier alternative!

 

My reasoning for thinking of breeding her compared to buying a pup is I like dealing with the puppys and young dogs and as for the easier part of it. Yes your right but I could have adopted kids and skipped the diapers, pregnant wife and all the not so fun things instead of having my own. I like my dogs traits she posses in the house and as a citizen ( my 3 year old daughter can tell her sit , kennel and even throw a ball and she stays at heel till she sends her but still drives hard on the line or duck blind and yes she still has a long way to go to reach big initials by her name but the ht pro I help seems to think the potential is there. As an amateur I don't break down my hours of training per cost more of a hobby. I've got a 9 year chocolate girl that I had a litter from last year sold 5 pups and kept one to start. I still stay in touch with the buyer and he seems very pleased with her ( hes on rtf also).there is some fun and a little pride in giving a Puppy a good start for me since I don't yet have the knowledge needed to complete at the higher stakes. I'm guessing that most so called big breeders started with one dog. Not saying that's the direction I'm going for

 

Shawn, here's another way to think about it. Say a dog spends much of it's life on a truck, maybe it's even NFC. Now imagine this same dog is super sweet and a great house dog despite the fact that it has hardly lived in a house. That dog must have awesome house dog genes, nature has outplayed nurture!

 

Shawn I have four intact males at my house right now and all of them are outstanding in the house I have a two year old son and 5 year old daughter they ride them and pull their tails and such all the time with no problems at all. Mine are some of the highest dogs you will see at a trial they have tremendous desire to get to the birds and are on the verge of being out of control at a trial (which they have been from time to time)yet when they come in the house you never know they would pickup a biscuit. Louie the bird craziest of all is so lazy you have to jump over or trip over him to get out of the way.
Grady sleeps on the king sized bed and I have to whistle to get him to go to work every morning I can assure you he has a on switch when your at a trial or training, he will kill himself if you are hunting pheasents. Trav snuggles up with 13yr old **** houndmix every night and Coal the youngster takes a little love and settles down and never know he's around. So I think the nuturing aspect and good socializing almost any pup at a early age is probably your best bet at getting a good citizen in the house. FC/AFC for the most part have to be extreme smart to get those titles and learning to be a good citizen is a trait most can adhere too. I will admit I have seen a couple that I wouldn't want around my kids for aggression issues and some are over the top ADD but those are very few in numbers.
I remember the day I brought Grady home as a pup and thought he had to be in that crate or in the lot at night. He whined about 30 seconds till Paige went and got him and he slept in the bed from then on! I believe you get out what you put in.
Chad

 

I completely agree with that but if a dog spends most of its time on a truck or in a kennel it may not have been given the chance to prove it self in the house or as a citizen but has proven his field ability .Like i said I had a dog out of high titled parents and it came from a kennel that im sure he was not in the house and you couldnt stand to be around him he would literaly slober and was a full time spazz he even peed on me a couple times .Maybe thats where my notion of if all big bread dogs are like this and its rare to find one that has an off switch which what lead to my origanal question

 

This gets my vote for dumbest thread of the week....


/Paul

 

Your vote don't count

 

My original question is an attempt to find out if the A in afc reoally ment something off the field and it seems to not be the case. But when your shopping for a car you dont start off at a tractor dealership.but when looking for a potential stud when not knowing the dog in person you don't go to the local pound to look for proven field performance so my thoughts where to find out if I could narrow my search by paying more attention to the afc title

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wts9qgeUKJ0

Here's a lab who trialed for majority of his life. Spent plenty of time on a truck.. Like Ted said, as long as they are brought up correctly it "shouldn't" matter.

 

Shawn, listen to what some of the best amature handlers are saying about FT labs.These dogs are bred to work with you.I got a "washout" at 20 months old that had been on pro's trucks since she was 6 months old.She's out of an FC/AFC that had about 180 points x a 2x CNFC.She came into the house and settled down well (except for a few of the wife's shoes ,just being a lab).She's now back on a super pro's truck because after being just a people dog decided she could do it.I now also have a 16 week old Merlyn pup that is very good for a puppy.If you go to wetlands retriever website you can see pictures of the pups being carried around by a 4 year old.
I say that FT labs make the best house dogs.

 

dogs are just like people. Some do a great job and are fun to hang out with 'round the house. Some don't do a good job at all but are still fun to hang out with. Some have no good at all.

.

 

Go to a few FT, find the people who's FC-AFCs live in the house on the bed, the ones that have their own XL dog boxes with 4-5 custom made cushions, and yet always seem to be in the front seat of the truck. The ones that get home made dog treats before breakfast and at the end of the day before the owners can even think about going to the potluck. There are a lot of under-represented FC-AFC's out there, who are mostly pets first. Get to know the dogs and the people, then you might find a couple of dogs and lines that you particularly like. .

 

All of our titled dogs are house dogs first. Wouldn't want them if all they did was pick up birds...the bond between them and us is more important than anything else.

Bill

 

Shawn, I think your other dog that you had problems with was just an individual. You could get the same thing from a backyard bred dog too.I bred to Cosmo just before he had gotten his FC and kept a pup.When it came to birds or retrieving she was a wild child.In the house or truck never a problem.

 

I have never seen any lab that won't come in the house, take over the couch, eat me out of house and home and then get butthurt when I take them back out to the kennel. Its in their DNA.

Now I have to go have a discussion with Scoop about swiping jelly donuts off the counter and eating them on my pillow....

/Paul