[hillsidegoldens]

I train alone. Today I luanched a dummy from shoulder mounted retrieve-r-trainer about 120 yardson slight side hill mark. Dog starts in short grass crosses a strip of high grass then into field of high grass. High grass is 12 to 18 inches. 12 month old takes good line into field then turns down hill sharply. He has run similar marks in short grass.

How do I teach him to fight side hill factor?

 

[John Robinson]

I train alone.

How do I teach him to fight side hill factor?

You just need to do a million of them, he'll get better as he gets used to terrain.

 

[hillsidegoldens]

Thanks John

 

[dorkweed]

When I judge; I always look for any sort of "side hill" that the dogs may have to run.

 

[KwickLabs]

.......He'll get better as he gets used to terrain.

There is a reason dogs will "square" terrain. It is basically a physics phenomenon. A dog is "kind of" like a 12"
wide wave of energy. When it strikes a different medium at an angle the far and near legs arrive at different,
split seconds of time (than when straight on) resulting in a change of direction. With practice and experience
new muscle memories may be created which will tend to compensate.

It might take a million times to "learn" randomly or one might reduce the time with specific drills. Training for it"
randomly seems less efficient. Using line of sight, "side hill drills" will allow the dog to over-ride the lack of muscle
memory compensations and develop the more complex skills required.

Practice is productive and physic is “phun” regards, Jim

Hillside Terrain Drill - YouTube (link)

 

[captainjack]

Handle the dog when he gives in to a factor.
But with no visible bird boy in the field it's difficult to know whether the dog gave in or simply forgot.

 

[Steve Shaver]

First ask yourself if it was terrain or wind or both. I think they will fade with wind more than terrain but if both are involved your really setting yourself up for failure.
Like everything else I like to introduce this concept to very young puppies on a very small scale to build the correct habits before they are old enough to really think about anything except the retrieve. Training is all about building habits. Since your dog is older I would try and have someone throw marks for you on a side hill and have them throw marks up hill rather than down. If they start holding the line when throwing up hill then try throwing down. Also shorten it up to a distance that they hold the hill then stretch it out. Also a small bumper like that in tall grass can be hard to find. I would almost bet that he was using the breeze to help his nose find the bird even if the breeze is very slight. Most dogs will fade with the terrain but some will square up hill.

 

[swliszka]

1. You need a dog with drive and perseverance to start with. No quitters. The drive causes them to hold the angle.
2. Preliminary training as a pup in cover of varying density and height. Do introductory hills at a pup level
3. Visible moderate distance marks teaching angles. Extend distance and degree of of hill angles. When ready do blinds.
4. Most here will not do it because it requires grounds, time , travel and dedication. Pros do nor always have the grounds to train dogs on this aspect.
5. Various regions differ in terrain and people/dogs who do NOT travel out of their "home" region may become "expert" @ their region and confused @ a new one.

 

[KwickLabs]

4. Most here will not do it because it requires grounds, time, travel and dedication. Pros do not always have the grounds to train dogs on this aspect.
5. Various regions differ in terrain and people/dogs who do NOT travel out of their "home" region may become "experts" @ their region and confused @ a new one.

Thanks. Reality is a pain in the "donkey".

 

[John Robinson]

Didn't mean to imply my approach was random, just that there is no magic drill to get dogs used to terrain and reliably able to fight that factor. That said, I'm sure Jim's drill would help greatly.


I'm fortunate in that my backyard 40 acres is very hilly, so my dogs have literally run thousands (not a million ) of marks and blinds, angle up one, down the other and side hill on the third. Actually a lot of the grounds we train, trial and hunt on in NW Montana is pretty hilly, left over from retreating glaciers of the last ice age. Our dogs just get used to dealing with this factor as a part of daily training. You can really tell the difference when out of Montana dogs, not used to these hills come up here to run.

CaptJack alluded to handling and or correcting a dog for caving to the hill factor the same way you would in dealing with any factor such as wind, cover, water. To do that the dog needs a recognizable reference, such as a visible gun. A dog squaring up a hill puts him behind the gun. You handle in front of the gun. The dog associates the correction relative to the gun, not really putting two and two together to realize he is really learning to fight the hill factor. Like I said, after a while they just learn to deal with it.

 

[Goldenboy]

Just to add to some good advice. Having your bird boy throw an additional bumper in route can be an aid in the learning process.

And yes, I saw in the initial post that you were training alone.

 

[John Robinson]

Sight blinds and or pattern blinds, run from all angles are good practice for the handler with no gunner help.

 

[Terry Marshall]

Just to add to some good advice. Having your bird boy throw an additional bumper in route can be an aid in the learning process.

And yes, I saw in the initial post that you were training alone.

You are on the down side when you don't have a person or a winger to throw again... until you get the equipment or personnel you will continue to confuse the dog Birds don't come from your side

 

[hillsidegoldens]

You are on the down side when you don't have a person or a winger to throw again... until you get the equipment or personnel you will continue to confuse the dog Birds don't come from your side

I should have thought of that all I have to to do is buy thousands of dollars in equipment or time with a pro. There is reason I train the way I do, and I have dog that I will be running master this fall. I did it by myself and with no equipment . It is not always easy but it can and will be done with this dog also.

Thanks for the advice anyways.

 

[hillsidegoldens]

1. You need a dog with drive and perseverance to start with. No quitters. The drive causes them to hold the angle.
2. Preliminary training as a pup in cover of varying density and height. Do introductory hills at a pup level
3. Visible moderate distance marks teaching angles. Extend distance and degree of of hill angles. When ready do blinds.
4. Most here will not do it because it requires grounds, time , travel and dedication. Pros do nor always have the grounds to train dogs on this aspect.
5. Various regions differ in terrain and people/dogs who do NOT travel out of their "home" region may become "expert" @ their region and confused @ a new one.

1. Dog has plenty of drive and has never quit. Do not think he ever will quit.
2. He has had a lot of short grass side hill marks.
3. Moderate distance and long distance marks in short cover done. Not ready for blind yet.
4. Plenty of grounds with side hills I will be doing more.
5. Southwestern Pa. every property has side hills.

 

[hillsidegoldens]

First ask yourself if it was terrain or wind or both. I think they will fade with wind more than terrain but if both are involved your really setting yourself up for failure.
Like everything else I like to introduce this concept to very young puppies on a very small scale to build the correct habits before they are old enough to really think about anything except the retrieve. Training is all about building habits. Since your dog is older I would try and have someone throw marks for you on a side hill and have them throw marks up hill rather than down. If they start holding the line when throwing up hill then try throwing down. Also shorten it up to a distance that they hold the hill then stretch it out. Also a small bumper like that in tall grass can be hard to find. I would almost bet that he was using the breeze to help his nose find the bird even if the breeze is very slight. Most dogs will fade with the terrain but some will square up hill.

It could have been the hill and the windy. he held the line until the last 20 yards or so. Then he would make a hard turn down hill, the prevailing wind goes down hill there.

 

[captainjack]

I should have thought of that all I have to to do is buy thousands of dollars in equipment or time with a pro. There is reason I train the way I do, and I have dog that I will be running master this fall. I did it by myself and with no equipment . It is not always easy but it can and will be done with this dog also.

Thanks for the advice anyways.

You'd be better off running stand alone (send backs or walk backs) marks than using the launcher that you are using. Or at least the dog would be better off.

Check out Dennis Voigt's Retrievers ONLINE web site and his training retrievers alone DVD. Not free but certainly less than buying wingers and electronics. But eventually making friends with other trainers and or buying equipment is the way to go.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

side hills overrated in many cases. probably not worth skipping a bunch of better singles in other places to just worry about one mark that punked him one day. Seems a popular topic though. bet if you tossed a flier up there he'd go straight to it just fine. maybe a bigger worry would be if you had an actual test set up with a bit of suction and dog caved every time to the hill and succumbed to that factor causing some failure it might be justified to seek some long winded corrective action. nothing in this thread seems to indicate there was a reason for the falling off the hill other than a lazy effort on the dogs part. for a single on a side hill I'd just move along to a bunch more singles somewhere else or, maybe repeat the mark a time or two and move on. find something more interesting for the dog if its a single. toss a flopper and see your human worry diminish.

 

[DarrinGreene]

Sight blinds and or pattern blinds, run from all angles are good practice for the handler with no gunner help.

One day I'm going to train a dog all along using nothing but this - I think it would help. Run blinds on side hills to white poles - a million or so (the million is a reference to an old retriever saying, don't take that seriously).

 

[swliszka]

Hillsidegoldens

1. It would be wise to train all dogs, hills,flat, mixed in various covers heights. If possible also cut cover in various NON-Row patterns so the animal has to deal with changing cover/density/height.
2. Most people train on uniform cover and thus do not teach. When a dog does NOT have a repertoire of cover varieties performance suffers.
3. Have you run in cut corn stubble? Some stubble can be a foot high and others down to six inches. Rows between the corn can throw dogs if they are required to angle across such corn rows. Some will not run dogs in stubble because of the fear that dogs will puncture pads. I have run such o n moderate hills (FT).