[22899]

Is it a Personal predjudice, or a resposible distinction?

 

[Marvin S]

Style is mentioned significantly in the AKC Rule Book.

 

[BonMallari]

Style is mentioned significantly in the AKC Rule Book.

then explain to me how a close family friend, whom you happen to know had a National Finalist dog with about 90 AA points and multiple DH's , changed his training regimen and his dog turned into a piggish dog and ended up with about 150 AA points on him( in his defense he has admitted that was the worse choice he made to change his training techniques because of what it did to his dog) ...I can think of at least a half dozen titled dogs that I could have out sprinted in a 40 yard dash to a retrieve but kept getting blue ribbons...

 

[22899]

Aside from a rule BOOK.. hence I would have posted in the specific section..

No Book,,, whats between your ears....

Is the term a pejorative,or could YOU word the phrase dofferently to define a specidic situation? Could it be subjective?

I will start by saying, I personally Prefere a fast dog.. I dont like a PIG! I use that word as a pejorative.

I have hunted with dogs and owners that dont know rule books.. Their dog wasnt the fastest in the world,but did a credible job hunting.. Hunting not necessarily being Waterfowl..

Although, could a deliberate, compliant dog, (slow and Piggy) do credible work, pickin up dead ducks , in the decoys, 35 yarrds away?

Try and think outside the norm for discussion sake.

Retriever Training! Retrievers are used hunting more than waterfowl..


I conceede I cant spell..

 

[mostlygold]

Style is about more than speed. Dogs that go out willingly but not fast should not get penalized for poor style. As our retrievers get older, they are going to slow down some, especially on the way back. I would prefer a slower, deliberate dog that marked the birds and took casts over a dog that sprints out wildly and runs around the field like it's tail is on fire. Speed is great if it is coupled with good marking and compliant line manners and blind work. FYI, I have been judging HT since 1996, all levels and also judge minor stake FT.

 

[drunkenpoacher]

“Piggy” describes a dog that moves slowly with a lack of confidence and appears to be always fearing correction.

Some dogs aren’t terribly fast but they appear happy and enjoying the work. It is just their nature (or age) and I suppose it could be called deliberate.

 

[bullsprig1]

“Piggy” describes a dog that moves slowly with a lack of confidence and appears to be always fearing correction.

.

Sounds like the Escalon shuffle to me

 

[Marvin S]

then explain to me how a close family friend, whom you happen to know had a National Finalist dog with about 90 AA points and multiple DH's , changed his training regimen and his dog turned into a piggish dog and ended up with about 150 AA points on him( in his defense he has admitted that was the worse choice he made to change his training techniques because of what it did to his dog) ...I can think of at least a half dozen titled dogs that I could have out sprinted in a 40 yard dash to a retrieve but kept getting blue ribbons...

A very good friend of ours (deceased) ran a dog in a trial I judged. If you judged the dog's lines it
won the trial. By the end of the 2nd series there was a serious discussion about whether the dog
should be dropped or not due to the lack of enthusiasm in going about her work. She ended up
finishing & got a greenie. He sold her that day.

I have also judged an Open at a trial where a dog won a DH. The winning dog did so because its
enthusiasm was far beyond that of the 2nd place dog. The trainer of the 2nd place dog eventually
moved to another profession, so apparently we were not the only judging pair that noticed the
lack of style.

But I also know of many who profess to like a stylish dog but set tests that reward dogs less so.

One of our sons owned a FFA pig. The dog we had at the time mounted her every time he went
into the pasture. Too many times I have seen the product of that mating do what you describe.

 

[BonMallari]

Aside from a rule BOOK.. hence I would have posted in the specific section..

No Book,,, whats between your ears....

Is the term a pejorative,or could YOU word the phrase dofferently to define a specidic situation? Could it be subjective?

I will start by saying, I personally Prefere a fast dog.. I dont like a PIG! I use that word as a pejorative.

I have hunted with dogs and owners that dont know rule books.. Their dog wasnt the fastest in the world,but did a credible job hunting.. Hunting not necessarily being Waterfowl..

Although, could a deliberate, compliant dog, (slow and Piggy) do credible work, pickin up dead ducks , in the decoys, 35 yarrds away?

Try and think outside the norm for discussion sake.

Retriever Training! Retrievers are used hunting more than waterfowl..


I conceede I cant spell..

Absolutely, my dear departed AFC Sophie was such a dog, injuries slowed her foot speed to a trot but she was not a pig, she was a prissy bitch , but not a pig, for example on a water/land retrieve she would stand over the bird and shake herself dry and look at me like "is this what you want me to pick up" it was actually hilarious because nobody believed me until they saw her do it, I even asked Lanse if she did that to him and he said only once, but my gosh could she mark

 

[Daren Galloway]

Style is apparent in every movement of a dog and throughout his entire performance.

End of story.

 

[BonMallari]

Style is apparent in every movement of a dog and throughout his entire performance.

End of story.

what would you say about a dog that walks not trots to a mark or a blind

 

[drunkenpoacher]

Ran a few blinds this afternoon.
I whistled, Jake stopped and spun around to face me, crapped as stylishly as any dog ever has, then took a perfect cast angling into the water and carried it all the way to the bird.
True story.

 

[22899]

A dog on a duck hunt thats in a blind with you. Has the temperament to lie down, maybe even go to sleep. Maybe even misses the shot and mark, because of its mellowness. The dog isnt the type that sits there with its eyes bugged out ,panting, waiting for birds! You don’t even know the dog is there most of the time..He does however go when and where sent hunts em up,,,, but will obey whistle commands, and take casts well if commanded.... Retrieves all birds on a Steller 10 bird day for two hunters.. All birds dead in decoys.. (notice I spelt temperment right!) Once..

A different dog on an Upland hunt, hunting tight sitting quail in heavy river bottom cover.Dog is slow, deliberate, plodder, that stays really close, but shows desire to find a bird (hunts) but does so very deliberately.. dog finds, flushes, tight sitting birds. (tough singles) He doesnt mark the fall well,, Pops,, and requires a handle to retrieve a bird or two. HE MAY POOP A LOT!!! The cheap arse food you feed him..!. He honors the whistle, and takes cast well. Is he is slow and piggy.. or deliberate and compliant? Is he a dog worthy of a hunt with you?

Both dogs work well each day on a four day hunt.. They just arnt blinding speed fast! Some may call Piggy. Orrr "not a stylish dog"..

Do you look up Style in a rule book? Would you not enjoy a hunt with this dog? Would you just as soon leave the dog home?

Do you guys think its possible to win a Poker hand with a pair of deuces? Would that make you smile?

 

[Daren Galloway]

what would you say about a dog that walks not trots to a mark or a blind

I'd say if you don't know style when you see it, you shouldn't be judging. I know it when I see it, regardless of speed.

 

[Daren Galloway]

A dog on a duck hunt thats in a blind with you. Has the temperament to lie down, maybe even go to sleep. Maybe even misses the shot and mark, because of its mellowness. The dog isnt the type that sits there with its eyes bugged out ,panting, waiting for birds! You don’t even know the dog is there most of the time..He does however go when and where sent hunts em up,,,, but will obey whistle commands, and take casts well if commanded.... Retrieves all birds on a Steller 10 bird day for two hunters.. All birds dead in decoys.. (notice I spelt temperment right!) Once..

A different dog on an Upland hunt, hunting tight sitting quail in heavy river bottom cover.Dog is slow, deliberate, plodder, that stays really close, but shows desire to find a bird (hunts) but does so very deliberately.. dog finds, flushes, tight sitting birds. (tough singles) He doesnt mark the fall well,, Pops,, and requires a handle to retrieve a bird or two. HE MAY POOP A LOT!!! The cheap arse food you feed him..!. He honors the whistle, and takes cast well. Is he is slow and piggy.. or deliberate and compliant? Is he a dog worthy of a hunt with you?

Both dogs work well each day on a four day hunt.. They just arnt blinding speed fast! Some may call Piggy. Orrr "not a stylish dog"..

Do you look up Style in a rule book? Would you not enjoy a hunt with this dog? Would you just as soon leave the dog home?

Do you guys think its possible to win a Poker hand with a pair of deuces? Would that make you smile?

I would not own a dog that fell asleep while hunting.

 

[Rip Shively]

Daren, in general I agree although can think of a few slow goose hunts when waiting for the birds to fly I heard snoring coming from the dog blind. They did wake up when we started calling. Not all of us can enjoy the great waterfowl hunting North Dakota can provide!

 

[EdA]

I would not own a dog that fell asleep while hunting.

Nothing quite like the late morning warming sun effect during a significant lull after 3AM reveille to induce a quick nap.

 

[22899]

When I said this :
:

"A dog on a duck hunt thats in a blind with you. Has the temperament to lie down, maybe even go to sleep."

I meant sleeping during a Lull... The dog isnt hunting during a Lull. No calling for example. no commands to Mark, or sit ect..

 

[polmaise]

I admire a dog with an off switch , much as I do with one who has an on switch.
I never specifically trained my old dog 'Buster' to lie down when I opened the chambers of my side by side and lit a cigarette, it was probably the many times out wild fowling that he learned there was no action about to happen?
Training one to have an On switch is easy ,but we don't like noise so much over here.His hearing was better than mine, the safety catch on the gun was often a 'trigger' rather than me pulling one, and more often than not! he could hear Teal' whisping in a direction I wasn't looking , so an early alarm clock for me when down time, was my dog being alert when 'snoozing' ...I don't think you can teach that ,other than actually doing it. There is no drill for it ..

 

[BonMallari]

When I said this :
:

"A dog on a duck hunt thats in a blind with you. Has the temperament to lie down, maybe even go to sleep."

I meant sleeping during a Lull... The dog isnt hunting during a Lull. No calling for example. no commands to Mark, or sit ect..

I have been known to take a nap in a layout blind on more than one occasion especially just before LST, our boy Mirk was good at it too , but he was the best alarm because he had excellent eyesight and hearing and could spot geese hundreds of yards away, got to the point where I learned to watch him instead of looking up to know when the birds were within gun range, I watched his eyes and his ears