[Marvin S]

Having read the entire post I find it interesting the conflict of opinions . It really boils down to knowing your dog & the level they have attained. Anyone who misses running their dog in the Derby is missing a treat. Aside from consistently poor judging, waiting for the major stake dogs to show, watching the dogs perform is in itself rewarding, & Derby tests go much faster .

The list is long of those dogs who were & are NC's & NAFC's who were also campaigned in the Derby, in some cases extensively. Probably the most shining example of that would be River Oaks Corky, a true gentleman on the line, who won more than his share of awards . I could go on beyond that but hopefully you get the point.

 

[Marvin S]

Any more current examples - say within the past decade?

Frank the Fisherman with Carbon, Chopper & the pup he sold named Emmitt .

 

[Marvin S]

As Big Jake would say "Not hardly."

I wonder why I bother to even post on the subject. Everyone is convinced that they are the exception, rather than the rule

Eight years ago, I was running Buffy in the Derby in Niland - the details are fuzzy. I remember a very promising young dog, who had line manner and noise issues. Everyone commented on it - behind the handler's back, of course. I went up to her and suggested that she take a break before the dog was ruined. She didn't, of course. And her dog was one of those who could pound the marks, but could never close the deal. And every trial, as a judge or competitor, I see more dogs and handlers go down the same path.

For those of you who think if Lottie can do it, so can you ... Hey, Kippy and I are laughing. And Bohn is ready to make you a client.

This post insinuates that unless someone subscribes to your game plan they are wrong. Yet when provided concrete proof that there is more than 1 way to skin a cat you fail to acknowledge that can exist.

Not all are blessed with someone willing to stay home do the tough stuff & allow absentee owner/competitors to reap the rewards . You are fortunate enough to live where you do & have those benefits. Putting a dog with a pro in this part of the country is on their terms not yours, so most of us muddle along as we do or did with many notable successes.

I came close to buying Cosmo as a teenage Derby dog, when Terry saw I was interested he decided not to sell. I later passed that on to someone who knew the dog & both of us well as I was thankful for not having the dog with the attendant results. His comment "you would not have allowed that line manner situation to happen".

It's not the dog - none of the dogs capable of competing successfully at the FT level train themselves - it's the owner & their ability to take the dog through a program to achieve a result that is satisfactory to the person paying the bills. A lot of people with dogs do not have the temperament to train anything at this level. There are a lot of judgments made along the way that affect the end result.

3 people train together, week in & week out, all go to the same pro, pups are all from the same litter, yet the only pup that turns out is the pup picked last. That tells me there is a lot more personal in this sport than folks realize. As Guy Burnett said " talk to the trapper with the pelts, if you are going to be a trapper" ;-).

 

[Marvin S]

The Derby is supposed to be ALL about marking, nothing could be further from the truth.

Straight lines win FT's, the Derby is no exception.
Dog A beaches early then goes directly to the bird...Dog B stays in the water with the same outcome.
In all else they are practically a carbon copy of each other with regard to all other aspects of their work.

.....they do not run another series so who places higher ;-)

john

John, this deserves it's own thread & is off subject .

 

[Marvin S]

After Derby the dog ran in Canada due to AKC suspension.

CKC honors AKC suspensions!!!!!!!

 

[Marvin S]

Breaking News!!!, John and Marvin took their differences outside....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM2LB3eLTc0

My comment to you young guys - you have to reach that age to appreciate the journey ;-) -

 

[Marvin S]

Ok, so this is what I've gathered from this conversation regarding running your pup in the derby:

•Training: Do yourself a favor and get pup through Swim-by, water decheating. Make sure pup can do LOOONG marks and long tricky doubles.

•Maturity or Steadiness: If you have a crazy lunatic who is only steady with an e collar on its neck, may want to work on steadiness and let pup mature before running.

•Readiness: If you have a pup who's steady when flyers are being shot as the first mark of a double and remains steady for the second mark, can run a decent line through land/water combos and is a really good marker at 350 yards - then go and have fun at the derby.

Bonus: If you meet all the above requirements, you can almost immediately enter the next phase of competition when you have aged out of Derby (as long as you've been training for blinds).

Any corrections or additions?

That's basically IT , but there will be detours along the way. Something always comes up new & unusual.