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Ted Shih

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have read the Performance Event thread with interest and have a few comments on the Misconduct Process:

My experience with the process is as follows. I have served as a member on several misconduct hearings. (Some of them resulted in recommendations of suspensions, others did not.) I have advised numerous clubs on how to conduct a misconduct hearing. I have not served as a witness or participant in any misconduct hearing.

Now, my comments - complaints:

First, I think that much of the process is made up by the AKC as it goes, and is not documented.

Several years ago, the Rocky Mountain club declined the entries of a handler in the Amateur on the grounds that the handler had received money for the training of dogs. At the time, I advised the club that the chances of prevailing were 50/50 because of the lack of hard documentary proof. However, the club was convinced in the merit of the claims and decided on a 9-0 vote of the officers/directors to proceed. I am not arguing about the outcome, but about the process.

The club submitted a one inch packet to the AKC. Included in the packet was the deposition of one witness who saw money pass hands from one person to the subject of the inquiry. That packet was submitted to the AKC.

The subject of the inquiry responded with another packet to the AKC. The club requested a copy of that packet. The AKC refused to provide the club with a copy of the packet.

Several months later, the club received a letter from the AKC stating that the club would need to accept the entries of the subject unless the club had additional grounds for refusal.

I called the president of Performance Events to ask for an explanation. I was informed by the president that the Club did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. Since the standard for civil cases is perponderance of the evidence, and the standard for criminal cases is beyond a reasonable doubt, I asked the president

1) Why the AKC would apply the criminal standard to a civil case?; and
2) Where in any of the published literature, the AKC states that it will apply a criminal standard to a misconduct hearing?

He said I would need to speak with the AKC lawyers

I also asked again whether the club could receive a copy of the subject's submission to the AKC. He said talk to the lawyers

I called the lawyers in New York. They refused to answer any questions.

I wrote a letter to the President asking for a written explanation of their decision. I received no response.

 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
Second, because the entire process is shrouded in secrecy, it is difficult make any sense of the punishment process employed by the AKC.

Again, from my personal knowledge

1) Handler is written up for lifting his dog off the ground (all four feet off ground) when dog does poorly on test. Offense occurs on trial grounds while trial is ongoing.

Handler gets one month suspension during winter months when no trials ongoing. What?

2) Judges throw momma/poppa bird as part of a quad. One gunner at momma/poppa station, so judges tell gunner to yell "Hey,Hey" for go bird. Judges suspended from judging for one year.

Why no written reprimand? Why a one year suspension?

In Colorado, when lawyers are sanctioned, the Supreme Court issues published (for repeat offenders) and redacted opinions concerning the suspension. By reading them, you get a feel for what misconduct results in what punishment

Because that information is not distributed to the public, it is impossible to tell what pattern - if any - exists in the punishment issued for misconduct ... and the rationale behind that decision.

Again, my complaint is that too much of the process is hidden.



 
Wow Ted, what scares me is that when someone with your qualifications in the legal due process cant get answers to a seemingly simple request, what chance does the average layperson with no legal experience have in getting their due process. You obviously followed the chain of command and the perverbial ladder to the top only to be stifled and shuttled from one phone extension to another which only led to a dead end, I guess its the AKC's version of the Potomac Two Step
 
Ted has given only a few examples. As I stated in another post the AKC attorney stated it is AKC policy to deny due process on appeal. Were else in this country is that policy????

To my knowledge there is nothing unusual going on. Same old stuff. This all started as a response to a hypothetical posted by Keith.

The tone of response indicates there is some simmering anger that needs to be addressed...first by the AKC. This from a person who knows and has worked the chain of command.

Bill
 
Ted the same thin that happened in my hearing AKC does not want to ive both sides the information sent to them to decide the persons fate. The notificaton that came to me didnt even have dates on the orginal complaint. that was filled in later. The system needs some improvements. The first would be to et in line with the COUSA. Inocent until proven guilty.
 
Ted the same thin that happened in my hearing AKC does not want to ive both sides the information sent to them to decide the persons fate. The notificaton that came to me didnt even have dates on the orginal complaint. that was filled in later. The system needs some improvements. The first would be to et in line with the COUSA. Inocent until proven guilty.
The system might need improvements...

But you need spell check for sure.:D
 
Never said I could spell or type. Although I am willing to discuss problems and seek a solution. Evidently my g and a couple of other keys are not working to well on this puter. To many chips eaten over the keyboard.:D:D
 
Interesting stuff, Ted. I wonder how many clubs across the Country have and are turning their backs on misconduct issues that should be punished; ignoring these situations due the the effort needed from the club and lack of response from the AKC.
 
Keith, you don't have to pay attention and I suppose the AKC doesn't either. But, people aren't always thrilled with what the AKC does.

Travis has a point.

Disenchanted regards,
 
Interesting stuff, Ted. I wonder how many clubs across the Country have and are turning their backs on misconduct issues that should be punished; ignoring these situations due the the effort needed from the club and lack of response from the AKC.
From my perspective, the brain damage is not worth it......
 
We had a clear misconduct issues last year at a test. The club/committee did everything they could to discourage a written complaint, even giving out free entries to those affected to next years event to "resolve" the issue quietly. Sent the offending party home. Factors include
1. No faith AKC will uphold it
2. Sidetracks the event
3. Nobody wants to be the "bad guy" and live with the reputation of having someone disciplined
4. Process is convoluted.
5. Nobody wins in the end.

/Paul
 
Keith, you don't have to pay attention and I suppose the AKC doesn't either....
Missed the smiley face at the end of that didn't you Howard...:cool:...I guess the irony of my comment was lost on you considering all of the recent "fun" threads on here....oh well...

C'est la vie regards,

kg
 
At our last field trial it was suggested that all board and committee members read the rule book prior to the trial (a good suggestion). I did and found the following passage in the Rule book that the AKC had just sent as part of the packet. Section 6, Chapter 8. "No entry shall be accepted from any person who is not in good standing with The American Kennel Club on the day of the closing of the entries. Before accepting any entries, a list of persons not in good standing must be obtained by the Field Trial Secretary from the American Kennel Club. As Field Trial Secretary I contacted the AKC to obtain the list. I was denied the said "list". As a matter of fact I was treated with suspicion when I first asked for it. I guess "shall" and "must" don't really mean what I thought they did. It's hard to have faith in a system that tells you that you shall and must and when you attempt to comply you are told to "forget it".
 
At our last field trial it was suggested that all board and committee members read the rule book prior to the trial (a good suggestion). I did and found the following passage in the Rule book that the AKC had just sent as part of the packet. Section 6, Chapter 8. "No entry shall be accepted from any person who is not in good standing with The American Kennel Club on the day of the closing of the entries. Before accepting any entries, a list of persons not in good standing must be obtained by the Field Trial Secretary from the American Kennel Club. As Field Trial Secretary I contacted the AKC to obtain the list. I was denied the said "list". As a matter of fact I was treated with suspicion when I first asked for it. I guess "shall" and "must" don't really mean what I thought they did. It's hard to have faith in a system that tells you that you shall and must and when you attempt to comply you are told to "forget it".
Nice. Did you write yourself up for misconduct for not following a "must" rule?

/Paul
 
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