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At least he didn't say "yes"!

Here's an interesting read.
http://www.dannyfarmer.com/dannyfarmer.com/Training_Tips_files/Starting%20Cold%20Blinds%20by%20Danny%20Farmer_1.pdf

Very good information there!!!

Gooser

 

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he transitions into cold blinds just like Joe Overby has taught me to do it and it works really good just building initial momentum.and the info and instruction on that is good. but he doesnt tell why he does TT. we do T, wagon wheel, and start running cold blinds in the same manner.

You need to go back and re read the information Mr Farmer suggests. He does indeed say why he runs the TT!!

He talks about before he transistions to cold blinds, he teaches handling and casting with a CASTING wagon wheel drill... Not a Lining wagon whell,,but rater a Casting wagon wheel from that remote sit position..
He says that dogs pick up easily to this because of the long time spent teaching the TT.. Its a very integral part of that programs progression.

Then when he does move to actual Cold Blinds, he is still heavily concentrating on the handling and casting insrtuction of the blind,, not so much the line to it!

All this STARTS with the TT
Gooser

 

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[/B]


Copterdoc, I would like to see a dog you've trained this way run a 400 yard water blind. Then I'll run mine on the same blind. She's run at white posts since she was a baby pup. I'd love to see whose dog runs it with more momentum and control.
Maybe doing it that way works for you, but I'd like to see it.

Walt

I believe the dog will be very solid on its LAND blinds,, and Casting VERY well before that dog is required to run a WATER blind... The BASICS of GOING,, Sitting,, and taking correct CASTS will be solid... Easier transition to water IMHO.

Gooser

 

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That Casting Wagon Wheel that Farmer talks about is very detailed also... Much more to it, than what he explains in his paragraph that has been linked to earlier..

There is a progression of how you teach angle backs, and overs from that angle back, as you progress around the wheel with the 8 stations.
Even teaches "come in" to a straigh in bumper,, and angle come ins ..Very detailed, and an important step before you start cold blinds.
They call it the CASTING Wagon Wheel.
My pup is just starting her cold blinds.

I run this Wagon Wheel casting drill often before i run a blind.,,, just to warm her up a bit.
I am working at teaching her to HANDLE.. Not so much run a line to a blind.
Gooser

 

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I also believe that a dogs momentum comes from a good dose of pile and T work in the yard..
Momentum and training attitude is built before asking a dog to run a cold blind..
Not to say,that dog dog is going to have great momentum as it starts its first cold blinds,, but I believe if Momentum and attitude is addressed during yard work, then the dogs confidence will transfere much easier when it starts cold blinds.

Gooser was hammered with being reminded to balance Force and Praise during Force fetch,, Pile,, and T work.. We spent a TON of time there...


Gooser

 

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not to sidetrack the de-railing of this thread but has anyone really explained what they can't do with T that they need TT to accomplish??

You get the diversion (with the deeper "Over pile,) of a slightly "angle back" pile from from the closer "over Pile".

If the dog decides incorectly to go to deeper pile,, the cast after the sit will still be that same "over" cast.

 

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I love this thread. I’m gonna go off the reservation for second, Chris ban my donkey if you need too.

I’ve never understood the need to teach a dog to go left and right. If you back up and look at a dogs natural inclination its to quarter a field. They go left and right from birth. I’ve never understood why we spend so much time teaching a dog to go over when what we want is a dog to go back, something that is foreign to them. Think it through, why do we do fetch and spend all that time force to pile? Why do people try and build momentum with known blinds? Why do we do pattern field? What is it that makes us build this foundation to go back?

Bottom line is bird dogs naturally quarter a field. No dog is born with an inclination to run 500 yards straight back. They will always break down and quarter. Their entire competitive life we focus on making them run straight lines and go back. Judges set tests to challenge that. Why would I focus on teaching big overs when 95% of the time I need them to go back with a slight change of direction? Think about literal casting? Oh they need to know it, but why drill into their heads side to side when I want them to go back? I may spend a couple of sessions on double TT with some dogs but frankly I want a dog to turn right/left and go back. That’s the taught aspect of running blinds. If I need to give an over in a HT or FT, I’ve failed as a handler. In all the hundreds of dogs I’ve worked with the dogs I have the worse ping ponging with are dogs that were drilled hard on overs. You pound that into a young dogs head and you got that for life. I’d much rather go out because the dog wouldn’t go over than go back. I can teach dogs to go sideways in a matter of days, going back takes months. I can also teach a dog to hold a biscuit on his nose until I snap my fingers but what frickin application does that have in competition? Or hunting? I can establish control without teaching overs.

On the other hand, pound overs into your dog. I love it. Just makes my dogs look better when I get to the tests…..

/Paul

yes! Very Good!

But,,,,,

Paul, dont you think you start to teach the angle backs with a very clear underrstanding of Over and straight back???

You can teach this by the start of teaching a strong over in the T,, and progress to the TT and get that angle back diversion..
If the dog takes it,, you recast the over.

Then progressing to the Casting Wagon wheel,,, you THEN introduce the angle back.

Its very clear to the dog beacuse its between the Over,, and the straight back!!

Am I wrong???

I started cold blinds with my pup recently. I gave an over cast!!! I thought I would NEVER hear the end of it,, 10 pounds a ass layin on the ground...

No more overs!!!!! She KNOWS the difference of straight back ( prolly shouldnt blow the whistle,, and an angle back.

It gets less angle over time.. correct???

Goosie!!

 

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What casts do we use in swim by,, and where did they learn those?

Gooser

 

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if you follow Lardy it is called Disiplined casting. Fancy name for bumper in mouth single T

But,

You had to teach the OVER first!!!

So, there IS a reason to kinda drum that over into the dogs head.. We will use it later down the road from the T and TT right??

Its not about the blinds themselves,, but teaching a next step.. maybe teaching to handle???... in other words,,,follow my direction...

Gooser