[Wade Thurman]

Many dogs are trained and handled to a qualifying 1st or 2nd by a pro.

Every time I think about entering a Qual I look and see the Pros entered and think why brother.


The biggest battle cry one constantly hears about FT's is "getting new/young people invloved". The 2 quotes above come from the original "What's the point" thread. In my opinion, the 2 quotes above say a lot about that "cry" for new blood.

I respect the young dog trainers who run the minor stakes, please don't get me wrong, but I just don't understand why, as an owner, you would do this. The only reason that comes to mind is that the trial is in the South for a northern owner or the North for a southern owner.

Is there pressure when you run a minor stake? As a new owner/young blood to the sport you bet there is. However, there isn't a better place in the FT game to get your feet underneath you and gain control of your emotions than the minor stakes.

Don't sit on the side lines any longer. Get out there and play the game. Have fun, have failures as well that will make those successes all the more sweeter!!

 

[Wade Thurman]

So why don't more owners run the dogs instead of their pros?? derby thru opens? Randy

That is my point Randy, EXACTLY. When you have nearly 60 dogs in the 2 minor stakes at a given trial and roughly 45-50 are handled by Pro's I think it speaks volumes to the battle cry of " new young people". If people aren't willing to run their own dogs when ever possible in those minor stakes what's the point? Where is the enjoyment of sitting on the sidelines watching when you could be on the field playing.

 

[Wade Thurman]

Mike

I really get tired of hearing you say this. Frankly, I think that it is - for you (and others that I have seen over the years)

a) An attention getting device; and
b) A way to excuse poor performance

​Ted

I couldn't agree more Ted. I think Mike might have said it earlier, if you keep telling yourself you can't beat the Pro's you never will.

 

[Wade Thurman]

What would be nice to see is more amateurs running their dogs in the Minor stakes. Someone said earlier, I think it was Ted or Mike, you can run the Q till your heart is content or 2 wins which ever comes first but run the dog yourself. A lot of people out here would rather see Amateurs running their own dogs rather than a Pro.

 

[Wade Thurman]

I could care less what others do with their dogs, personally I prefer to run my own dog minor and major stakes, but that's just me.

Isn't that the point though John. People keep talking about bringing new people into the sport. If you bring those people in and all they do is have a Pro run their dog, WHAT'S THE POINT?

 

[Wade Thurman]

As a Devil's advocate for a moment . . . .

I think we would all agree that the first requirement is a dog who can be a competitive FT dog. I think we would also agree that the best way to go about this is to acquire such a dog at a cost of somewhere around $2000. Then, for most of us, the dog would go to a pro to determine if it in fact was a competitive FT dog. At least 6 months at somewhere between $700 - $1000 a month, or another $4200 - $6000. This does not count food, vet bills, etc.

Now, with all that money and expertise having gone into the dog and its training, why would I handle it?

Put another way, could I take Jimmie Johnson's race car and get the same or better results than Jimmie? With the same exact car? Racing against other NASCAR drivers?

It's possible that I could outrace those guys, but not very likely.

Don't get into the sport then is what I would say. Again, What's the point if you are not going to run your own dog. Where is the pleasure in having someone compete with your dog?

I'm not saying don't use a pro, there is nothing wrong with having them take the dog and train it for a few months. However, to sit on the side lines while the game is being played isn't fun at all. How does one get enjoyment from that?

 

[Wade Thurman]

Wade, there are many people (I'm not one of them), that get a lot of pleasure just owning a successful dog. I imagine this is similar to the way a race horse owner feels about their horse.

John, I didn't mean to sound harsh there. I just think that if you can run your dog run your dog. The Minors are a great place for new people to do that.

 

[Wade Thurman]

What almost no one outside the group knows is that the group collectively cheer for each other and view individual accomplishment as a group accomplishment which is very very refreshing in today's "me" world. This was Holland's first summer in his young life away from CO and the training group yet he/I received, privately or publicly, congratulations from everyone in the group for him being a Finalist. As one person told me we all cheered when we heard the news because "he is one of our team".

How cool is that?

Pretty neat Ed. pretty neat!!

 

[Wade Thurman]

(Mike beat me to it, thanks TD#2! Too bad you don't have your own products line!)

Take my post out of context if you choose Carol.
The thread is about competing agains pros in field trials. It has nothing to do with participation on the forum, or in hunt tests, or agility, or dock dogs, or visits to the bark park.
I haven't met a pro yet that's going to withdraw their client's dog from the 4th series to give some amateur a better chance. I wouldn't want to win that trial if they did. (Ok, well maybe I would accept the blue, but it would have an asterisk).
As one person on here will say... put on your big girl (or boy) panties if you choose to participate in a competitive sport.
If you're only in it for the social aspect, that's your perogative I suppose, but that's not why I compete. (Although I've made some great friends in my pursuit).
There are multiple avenues for spending time with your dog, but that's not this subject.

Mark & Mike,

The thread is not that I have issues with Pro's running the Q or competing against Pro's. I am trying to state that I would like to see new people run there own dogs, especially in the minors, rather than have a pro run the dog. Is there a better place than the minor stakes to run as a newbie than the minors? People talk about getting new blood in the FT game all the time, GREAT. But run your dogs when you have the chance. Don't be a spectator, be a participant, is what I'm trying to say.

 

[Wade Thurman]

You're absolutely right Wade. I veered a little.
If you're not going to compete in the minor stakes, its more doubtful you'll ever run the AAs.
(Although I'm just as nervous going to the line in the minor stakes as in the majors).
I'll also never understand what possible satisfaction folks get out of someone else titling their dog in HTs, but that's their business too.
I have an analogy that's not appropriate here.

I'll be looking for the PM. LOL

 

[Wade Thurman]

I just dont want to see the dilution of competion for the sake of participation.

I agree Mike, however remember this game was, is and always should be ABOUT the Amateur.

There is nothing wrong with using a pro, none what so ever. But when game time comes, if at all possible, as a new person to the sport with a dog entered in a minor stake run your dog in that minor stake. Learn to handle the dog. learn to handle your emotions at those lower levels so that when one gets to the big leagues (AA stakes) you have controlled some of those things.

I believe to understand how things work internally as a judge, as a gunner, as a thrower, as a marshal you have to experience being on the mat yourself during a trial.

 

[Wade Thurman]

And just when you thought it was contradictory enough, I had a choice to go to the SEC Championship game or go work with my trainer and my dog today, and I picked my dog. Mostly because the behavior he is describing sounds so foreign to me (that is, good) that I want to make sure he still actually has my dog.

Who wants to stand in line for an $8 Miller Lite that is warm anyway???

I believe you made the wrong choice!!!! LOL

Should be a good game. I am not a big of Mark Richt, I like Bama to win

 

[Wade Thurman]

So what are you saying John? Please elaborate a little more.

 

[Wade Thurman]

https://www.entryexpress.net/loggedin/viewentries.aspx?eid=5544
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?91543-Snowbird-Retriever-Club/page2

Look at the entries and the results of the Snowbird trial, this is what the Q is all about. The Pros and A list Ams finish with the best dogs there that day.............That is how it was meant to be.

If some other dog was better that day they would have placed; no matter who was handling.

THAT is and should be what this game is all about!

Its about the dogs regards,

john

I don't have an issue with Pro's in the game. However, if we don't have people running their own dogs in those minor stakes how will our judging pool get any deeper or better? If Pro's are running most of those dogs in the minors how will those newer people become A list amateur handlers?

One can not gain the neccesary knowledge by sitting on/in the sidelines/gallery.

 

[Wade Thurman]

Running a dog in minor stakes will not deepen the judging pool, unless of course you are just looking for minor stake judges. The requirements for judging an AA stake are not just take a test any more. Yes we can hope those who handle in the minor stakes get the bug and will continue on to the AA level, but let's be realistic the rate of new people coming up through the ranks is about 2-3 per year if the sport is lucky and then they go on to the AA level, get their rears handed to them one too many times and quit. This game is not for the faint of heart...

Someone told me once the average life expectancy of a FTer wannabe is about 5 years....if a person can make it past 5 they are generally hooked, anything less and they may or may not survive, more than likely they pack up their toys and go home.

..Ok then..

 

[Wade Thurman]

It's not so much about "competing" as it is starting at a level that will bring and keep new people in the sport.