[Colonel Blimp]

A question relative to hunting rather than trialling.

How do you decide when enough is enough and you and Fido aren't going to find the bird, especially when neither you nor the dog marked it and it's a blind for both of you?

And just for a laugh, what is the greatest number of such consecutive "blind blinds" your dog has pulled off? Poor old " Eddie" set a personal best this afternoon; he was marching on his chinstrap when we called it a day.

Eug

 

[blind ambition]

How do you decide when enough is enough and you and Fido aren't going to find the bird, especially when neither you nor the dog marked it and it's a blind for both of you?


Eug

Eug, If I don't know where to handle the dog to make the retrieve, I wouldn't consider it a blind, rather I would have him quarter the field. If the dog was doing its job thoroughly and checked the whole field I'd loose interest once the field had been scoured twice. Perhaps I'd give up sooner if there was a pint of Bitter waiting and a Steak and Kidney pie to be consumed

 

[John Kelder]

swamps I hunt its more the norm for any cripple to be tough to recover.Don't matter if we marked it or not. Send the dog ,last place I will see the dog ,I cast him and tell him to hunt it up .Cover is over 4 foot tall , he knows its out there in the thick sh$$ ,and he has a go at it .If I hear him off course ,I recast with a verbal BACK.If it appears he took the cast ,fine(lucky).If he went the wrong way ,I give a NO ,and another back .And after 10 minutes ,if no bird ,I call him in .He wishes we shot better regards......

 

[labguy]

Eug, If I don't know where to handle the dog to make the retrieve, I wouldn't consider it a blind, rather I would have him quarter the field. If the dog was doing its job thoroughly and checked the whole field I'd loose interest once the field had been scoured twice. Perhaps I'd give up sooner if there was a pint of Bitter waiting and a Steak and Kidney pie to be consumed

Steak and kidney pie?????????? Makes me want to regurgitate just thinking about the smell of those things cookin.

Tainted childhood memories regards,

The rest I would agree with. If it was a young dog I'd have a bird with me to plant so the dog can be successful if it became apparent we weren't going to find the original bird.

 

[freefall319]

When you feel you and the dog have given your best effort, only you know when that is.

 

[PocketLab]

Depends on the situation. But I never let her come back empty handed (mouthed?) I either throw a bumper or a birds to handle her to on the way in. You can really tell a difference in attitude when they come back with nothing.

 

[tom]

Now you know why I throw marks in standing corn fields.
Once a dog figures it out, those birds are no problem.
Just give the dog a line to the downwind side of where you think the bird is.

add:
And I agree, never let a dog fail. Take a frozen pigeon with you if nothing else.

 

[Kasomor]

A question relative to hunting rather than trialling.

How do you decide when enough is enough and you and Fido aren't going to find the bird, especially when neither you nor the dog marked it and it's a blind for both of you?

And just for a laugh, what is the greatest number of such consecutive "blind blinds" your dog has pulled off? Poor old " Eddie" set a personal best this afternoon; he was marching on his chinstrap when we called it a day.

Eug

Had this happen last night.

Ditch jumping...we flushed 6 or so ducks. I downed one and missed one with my second shot. Dog didn't mark it and neither did I because I swung on to the second bird. I KNOW I hit the first bird and I saw it fall but not hit the ground.

Once the dust settles.....

Send the dog on a back and hunt it up. She hunts and hunts and hunts....comes up with a mallard. GOOD DOG!!!....except I shot a wigeon :shock:

At least I think I did.....hmmmmm......send dog on back and hunt it up again.....dog hunts, and hunts, and hunts.......etc....etc... start second guessing myself.....did I actually hit it???? ......she doesn't come up with the bird. Oh well, hey she got A bird!! GOOD DAWG!

Call her back in, sit in the blind. A couple more people come into the field. There is a ditch between us so we are B.S.ing back and forth. The guy looks down and there is a wigeon at his feet tucked into the grass. The bird I shot.

It was within a foot of where the mallard was. She had picked up the biggest bird and didn't go back to the old fall on the second hunt. GOOD DAWG!!! ....I think...;-)

To answer your question...it depends. If the dog is in water at this time of the year and a hunt is getting old...I'll call her off sooner then if it was on land.

 

[Colonel Blimp]

Thanks for the replies.

I didn't anticipate the "never let your dog fail" angle. That's something I observe in training but not in the field. Given the set up we work under it's a counsel of perfection, but throws an interesting light on the different ways dogs might work in UK from the US nevertheless. In particular

You can really tell a difference in attitude when they come back with nothing.

caught my attention. My lot tend to stand off about 50 yards out with pricked ears and tails wagging, looking for a cast. "Nothing up here Boss, where to now"? Quite a difference in expectation and approach.


What I was faced with yesterday was a steep wooded hillside with a thick understory of bramble and briar that had an unknown number of birds on it; a guesstimate would be 25-30, some dead but also quite a few cripples (people will insist on shooting high driven birds with a 28 bore...clots). There was also the reverse slope to consider. How this unsatisfactory situation came about is another story ... words were spoken! I just had to sort it out.

From another vantage point I'd marked a woodcock, but that was it. It's just about impossible for a person to climb the slope so any handling had to be done from the stream bed at the bottom where the Guns had been standing.

We picked a sling full (16) and then moved down the dell a bit to pick the woodcock. "Eddie" then brought another 7 to hand on the trot, then came back empty handed twice. A lady had joined me with her two Labs and found two more; Eddie just one. We then had all three working allowing each to return three times without a bird, at which point we packed in.

I'm sure purist Triallers and others would be horrified by the thought of letting Fido roar off into the jungle and do his own thing; have him come back into view looking for directions, and work in competition with other dogs. I suspect many hunters would love it!

regards
Eug

PS

Steak and kidney pie?????????? Makes me want to regurgitate just thinking about the smell of those things cookin.

That's what the Management had cooked for dinner when I got home! Skirt beef + lambs kidney + mushrooms + shallots + lashings of red wine and rosemary topped off with crisp pastry. Spuds mashed with cheese, garlic and chives. Green beans and shredded cabbage. Two glasses of Aussie Shiraz. Coffee and a glass of port. Bearing in mind I was paid the equivalent of about $55 for my efforts on the day, I reckon life is good!l!

 

[tom]

Well if "Eddie" picked a sling full, he certainly didn't fail

What is common here is to down a duck in the phags that are as high as your head which makes marking the fall impossible.
So what I do is if the dog goes on an overly extended hunt and is not coming up with the bird, I will walk/wade part way to the AOF and plant the frozen pigeon that I had the forethought to have tucked away in my pocket.

The risk here is that if you send a dog repeatedly for retrieves where it finds nothing, it will begin to believe that it is not suppose to find anything when it is sent.

 

[PocketLab]

Colonel, I would definatley say your dog succeded. I would say most people probably have different expectations when hunting. I was also thinking of the same situation as Tom. I have downed birds into 12 foot tall roseu cane and just cast her in the particular direction and she's on her own. If she has an issue I do the same as Tom. I toss a bird for her to pick up.

I was picturing a different hunting situation than you were talking about.

 

[MarkyMark]

If you go hunting and don't see any birds, no shots fired should you toss something out there. If by chance you miss a duck and come up with a total miss in a volley toss something out there. Or maybe your dog should know your not always going to have red letter days.

 

[tom]

If you go hunting and don't see any birds, no shots fired should you toss something out there. If by chance you miss a duck and come up with a total miss in a volley toss something out there. Or maybe your dog should know your not always going to have red letter days.

It's basically just a problem with the dog being sent and not finding anything. A dog can sit in the blind all day or keep me company on a hike and never develop a problem.

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

A funny story of how dogs remember these things. I keep a built duck blind (think pile of brush) in a local wildlife management area. I had a duck burrow into tall grass in knee deep water. Dog hunted and hunted. More birds came, had to call dog off and back to blind. Dog made more retrieves but was obsessed all morning with the spot. But could not come up with the bird. I let my dog free range while I pick up the decoys and again he spent all the time in that spot circling and rooting, no duck. Went home. Let blind rest for two days and went back. Again, dog swims with me and romps in the dark while I set decoys. Doesn’t he go right to that same spot and start a rooting. And from the splashily splash and body language in the gloom I can tell he is onto something and I give him an encouraging “Hunt it up boy!” And a minute more and up he comes with an alive (poor critter) mallard cripple. From three days earlier!!!!
Good Dog!!!!!
I may give up, but the dogs?????



.

 

[i_willie12]

When you feel you and the dog have given your best effort, only you know when that is.

Agree with this!!
Sometimes you just lose birds, sucks but part of it!!!

 

[Rick Hall]

Eugene, I may come as close as anyone on this side of the Atlantic to the situation you describe, but still only remotely so, in that we've frequently picked up for dogless (or same as) blinds in a very bad floating marsh. Not apt, however, to more than 18 birds per blind or a couple of such blinds per morning, and the majority of the birds are usually visible or reasonably well marked. Only some are "maybe one somewhere over that way," though significant miss-marks are quite common. Bottom line, however, is still a lot of "hunt 'em up," (we use "go to work") and vague handling in arduous conditions, too often to no avail.

My answer to your "when to give up" question depends on a number of things, chief among which usually being the dog's experience, training, current success level and inherent "hunt". I have not found that an experienced dog needs to be rewarded with success nearly as often as an inexperienced dog to maintain enthusiasm, or a well trained dog to maintain trust in fruitless direction as a less well trained one. We give up when a good dog indicates that we're spinning our wheels by lack of continued enthusiasm for the project or, hopefully, before a less accomplished candidate decides I'm full of beans.

 

[Rick Hall]

A funny story of how dogs remember these things. I keep a built duck blind (think pile of brush) in a local wildlife management area. I had a duck burrow into tall grass in knee deep water. Dog hunted and hunted. More birds came, had to call dog off and back to blind. Dog made more retrieves but was obsessed all morning with the spot. But could not come up with the bird. I let my dog free range while I pick up the decoys and again he spent all the time in that spot circling and rooting, no duck. Went home. Let blind rest for two days and went back. Again, dog swims with me and romps in the dark while I set decoys. Doesn’t he go right to that same spot and start a rooting. And from the splashily splash and body language in the gloom I can tell he is onto something and I give him an encouraging “Hunt it up boy!” And a minute more and up he comes with an alive (poor critter) mallard cripple. From three days earlier!!!!
Good Dog!!!!!
I may give up, but the dogs?????



.

My Peake is very much the same, in that I'm not sure he's ever forgotten where a bird beat him, and will return to the scene of that crime to continue the search days later. But the funniest of such obsessions was with an apparently miss-marked Retrieve-R-Trainer bumper lost under thick marsh vegetation. Don't know if he thought he could smell it or was simply convinced of his mark, but "the coyote" commenced what became a sizable underwater excavation project over the course of however often he could slip off during several subsequent visits to the farm:

by digging nail and tooth:

albeit, unlike your dog, to no avail in this case. Other times he's been more successful on return visits to areas birds beat him, though never in the exact spot they were last seen.

 

[Paco]

Thanks Ken and Rick.
Good stuff.