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1. Are they any good?
2. How much $$$$$ are you willing to provide in upkeep?
3. Would you be an annoying and obstructive co-owner or would you be satisfied to sit in the corner and keep your mouth shut?
4. Do you have a hot wife or girlfriend?
5. Do you drink or smoke pot?
6. Would you be willing to purchase summer training grounds in Montana?
7. Are you a Democrat?
8. Are you a Crimson Tide fan?
9. If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?
 
I am violating my own code of conduct by posting as my views are from the heart and unfortunately are observed every weekend. One co owner who runs 6 dogs every weekend of which two or more are co owned made the statement to a holding blind marshall at a NARCCS "I couldn't stay in this sport if my co-owners didn't pay my expenses." Then there is an individual who runs 6 dogs, 2 they own and 4 are totally owned by an amateur who has no ability to train a dog so the handler trains daily and runs all 6 dogs in both Open& Amateur. Guess where the funds are derived from? The spirit of the game is seriously diminished(in my opinion). As to Augie and Louise- they both trained their own dogs . Every morning Augie would work Soupy, Gumbo, Penrod, Weegy,and my ex wife would meet Louise daily to work Mariah, Paint, Tojo. Is the sport expensive? You bet. Why do I stay at "Red Dot" motels-- because the drugs are best, the hookers are plentiful, and I don't have to feed my dogs as they eat whatever is under the bed. I have never seen myself as a member of the "Elite" since had I been, the politicians who run the National club's would have invited me. The third time in 3 years when the head of the RHOF called me re the ballot for that year I told him not to embarrass himself for this would be the third year where the number of nominations (over 179) each year were ignored by the Elite who decide who on the list they want. Since I have offended many of those by accusing them of dishonesty, manipulation of National judge selections, and a few other nefarious acts that he should wait until I was dead. When I worked in Wall Street when I moved to Montana,and ever since all my dogs go to Jim VanEngen as I do not know how to do basics. My relationship with Rex Carr ended 21 years ago and since then I have trained by myself my dogs.Before work,during lunch hour and till dark after work, then every weekend. Three years ago I went to a Rorem Seminar in Florida and Dennis Voight was there also. Dave asked "what the hell are you guys doing here? Well I had Rosa and Dennis had Odie-both fully amped dogs and we both knew that all the methods we had tried earlier were not effective. Since that time I have been working with Dave Rorem and I am learning so much about how to read and teach these dogs of mine that I told Dave that he will never train a dog for me unless I am n a wheelchair or on a walker, but I am going to have my nose 4 inches from his ass as what I am learning is almost Zen. I am excellent on the Xs and Os after 50 years, that is the "physical" now I am learning the mental. Yes, I am depleting rapidly any liquidity I presently have, but I am having fun, the dogs are having fun and BOTH of us are learning without pressure. On the aside last weekend when Rosa got a 2nd the last series of the Amateur had Lynnne-3 NAFCs, Mac 1NFC, Sutter 1NAFC, Neil 1NFC, !NAFC, Kampo 1 NFC, Powers 2 NAFCs, Hays 1NFC . Hell myself, Duncan and Woodson were orphans-soot covered, and among what I consider a group who all are dedicated to the sport and who next weekend will be putting on a trial so the absentee owners and the co owned can parade their little darlings on the stage and we all can see how nice their dogs are,of course we will have to wait for 30-45 minutes for them to show up,do those "amateur" handlers care that all the stations are sitting in the rain, hot sun etc while we wait? Do they realize that all the contestants and judges are being inconvenienced and their selfishness is destroying the time management that the judges were trying to adhere to? BS all they care about is themselves. Take their entry money but BE PREPARED TO WAIT. This next week I have 3hunt test people coming to train with me, all 3 want to enter Field trials so if we encourage and welcome those who seriously want to learn and then perhaps after all these old elephants like myself kick off there will still be people who are hands on trainers.
Good response as always, Lanse! I love your irreverence to the muck-aty-mucks. (From just another lowly amateur...)
 
1. hell naw! (if they were any good i could train them myself)
2. i got four heartworm pills left out of a box of six i will send along.
3. ...................................................................(that's the silence of my shut mouth)
4. smokin' wife.......aint got no girl friends!
5. good baptist, so.......maybe and maybe?
6. no, but i know some people! training grounds are like swimming pools. it's easier to have a neighbor with one than have your own.
7. see #1.
8. ....................................................................(silent on the matter.............until jacob gets me started)
9. my duck huntin' buddies always call me "king of the pin oak flats". so oak i guess?

ed,
provided my answers meet your approval, i will meet you half way in little rock saturday. i assume you will like the black one best!
jmc
 
Discussion starter · #65 ·
roseberry said:
ed,
provided my answers meet your approval, i will meet you half way in little rock saturday. i assume you will like the black one best!
jmc
Dang, now that the Aggies have joined the SEC you boys need a little geography lesson, Little Rock is on the way to Memphis not Birmingham, besides I am tied up this weekend with the North Texas field trial in Southern Oklahoma...:confused:
 
I'm curious what the point is? Not knocking you Tammy...but the fact that there are takers and givers in the sport will not go away - I hope some day to have numerous competitive AA dogs, that is why I'm working my arse off now with a desk job...I try and judge a couple times a year (if I'm asked) and support my club's HT and try to put on a FT (may not this year)...but once I get to the age where I can enjoy training multiple dogs, enter multiple dogs I want to have that option available...limiting the amateur is a very, very bad move in my opinion.
 
I would worry more about the direction of the Open than the Amateur. Where 1-2 handlers often have 30% or more of the entry. In one of the trials listed 1 handler has 59%!

Tim
 
Point

Is this the direction we want the Amateur stake to go?
You can not legislate common courtesy or common sense...if some one has 3+ dogs and doesn't give back to the sport, that's on them, why should you create a rule that hurts those who have 3+ dogs and do give back (by judging, putting on trials, use of land, etc)? Do you want the direction of the sport to drive away those who give back? I think we tend to focus on the negative and not look at the positive and I'd really, really like to believe there is more positive than negative n this sport. Are we trying to create a solution for a "problem" that really isn't a problem?
 
Putting Dr And Mrs Heise on that list is in poor taste, they are very nice people and shouldn't have their names singled out with the others listed

The state of the Amateur stake is part of the monster that has been built over the years, if you want to compete against smaller fields try the Utah trials, they could use the support
 
So is the frequency one judges supposed to be the new criteria for how one gives back to the sport and therefore how many dogs one can run? What about the person who doesn't judge but works from before the judges wake up until after they are three sheets to the wind to put on two FTs and two HTs per year? How many dogs would that person be allowed to run?
 
Putting Dr And Mrs Heise on that list is in poor taste, they are very nice people and shouldn't have their names singled out with the others listed

The state of the Amateur stake is part of the monster that has been built over the years, if you want to compete against smaller fields try the Utah trials, they could use the support

NOT ONE PERSON was singled out FOR ANY REASON and only the facts of 4+ dog handlers for the weekend of 5/17 were stated for discussion purposes.

I DID mention that Ann was judging, and I'm sure she would have run a dog or two if she wasn't judging. That is why Dr. Heise was running the dogs I'm sure.

Ann and Bob contribute VERY MUCH to the sport as you can see from their judging assignments. My apologies for the confusion.

ADDENDUM: I should have realized mentioning names would create misunderstandings, so they've been removed.

Aside from how much any one handler contributes to the sport, multidog handlers in the Open, Amateur and Qual create logistical problems for the clubs and their volunteers.

If a multidog handler is only entered in the Open, then there aren't the logistical problems of getting them from stake to stake.

If a mutlidog handler is entered in the Open and Am, then the club must adjust the running orders accordingly to accomodate them and prevent delays. This creates many inconveniences for not only the club, but other handlers who are forced to run out of order. It can also create a problem for judges in providing an honor in the last series.

Multidog handlers who enter many dogs in the Open, Am and Qual are very hard on the club logistically as it is almost impossible to be at 3 stakes at the same time. Almost everyone at the trial is inconvenienced in these situations.

For the most part the majority of the multidog handlers have been very accommodating. In the past it has been a very minor nuisance, but their numbers are growing. Hopefully there will be a workable solution for all involved.
 
I know multi dog handlers that work to put on ie: chair, chief marshall and so on that can run dogs be on time and be successful. I also know of multi dog handlers that dont do jack squat. I know single dog owners blah blah blah. Just like the federal gubment the RAc needs to take a step back and let the local folks who put on the trials have some control back. Heck even have term limits and actual elected members. But if they have that much time on to spend on minutia they could add 1 or 2 more trials a year that the RAC puts on.

OK now that I have ranted a bit back to lurking.......
 
At a local field trial recently it was discussed about how there are different rules in place for different sporting dog venues (**** hounds, pointers, etc) and in one type; I believe certain **** dog competitions, the competitors are allowed to buy back into the competition if their dog gets dropped from the competition similar to a mulligan in golf.

Everyone joked about how it would be good and bad for some as it’s very common to hear competitors say in the gallery, “Man if I only had one more chance at that mark or blind”. But what would the competitor say if after running the second time they got the same results?

So for those in favor of limiting entries I ask what will your excuse be when you don’t win after limiting your competition because that is all that would be accomplished by making that change. Maybe you could change the rules to judge on a curve for those competing with less than 3 dogs?

IF I ever win an AA stake I would want it to be because my dog was better than the other dogs available to compete not because I limited everyone to my personal situation as I don’t know how that would be fair to those being limited.

As far as logistical issues and people waiting for other competitors at other stakes, that is field trials. If you have never had to get an extra night’s hotel room or waited hours to just run the last dog that has been at another stake you haven’t been around the game very long.

Life is not fair and neither are field trials.

-Cameron
 
TBell,

Do I wish I had a 4 or more dogs to run in a stake? You bet. Am I going to toss the flag and cry foul because someone else has more time and means? Hell no. This is America, We have a right to a flyer. We have the right to enter as many dogs as we can/want. We have the right to enter the trial we wish. We also have the right to run under the judge of our choice.

Jealousy is an emotion resulting in negative feelings based on insecurities, fear and resentment. We shouldn't hate on people because they have a perceived advantage based on one's self perceived disadvantage It's a game, learn to play it to "your" advantage. Just because some handlers have more bullets than others doesn't mean they are going to hit the target...a bad shot is a bad shot. I've judged/ran/trained with several that couldn't hit with Farmer's truck. On the other hand there's Charlie string, you better be on your A game because that team can play and they raise the bar. Either my dog is better that day or he is not. Field Trials determine a winner, it's the not a sport where they don't keep score and everyone gets a participation ribbon. Line them up and let the best dog win. If you don't win, try harder or find a different sport.


I've stated this before but I think Field Trials should be a little more like Hockey. If people were allowed to take care of their issues face to face and not take cheap shots from the gallery or on the internet there would be a little more respect given and received on the weekends so that the sport could police itself.

Shawn Stahl
 
Shawn S.

The original theme of the thread is about the RAC rules dictating 'Amateur' status, and my comments were directed toward the current status of the 'Amateur' stake and handlers.

I believe the spirit in which the 'Amateur' stake was created years ago has been lost. If you have been in field trials for any length of time, you know what I am talking about. In years past, the Amateur stake has consisted mainly of Amateurs who owned and ran a couple of dogs (even trained them themselves). Rarely were there handlers with more than two dogs, but now it is becoming commonplace.

The 'Amateur' stake seems to be going in a new direction by having a large number handlers with multiple dogs. Apparently I am old fashioned and need to get with the 'new' trend of the 'Amateur' stake since it seems to be fine with you youngsters, and oh yeah, this is AMERICA!!

Signed with my real name below,
 
Shawn S.

Signed with my real name below,
Please excuse my lack of posting my name as I had thought I had a signature line. Hardly am I hiding behind a screen name. I'm quit recognizable, in fact we judged separate stakes in Central Ark this past spring, yet we didn't have a chance to officially meet.

Without a doubt the sport has evolved, as all things tend to do. We can choose to keep up with the times, hold back time or let the times pass us by.

Shawn Stahl
 
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