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Bon

You are beginning to sound like Marvin.

You make an unsupported accusation. I bring up facts to dispute your contention. You say - go find more proof. I guess that's the way of the internet.

My guess is that if I were to look at EE and figure out who judged last year - I would find that better than 50% of the participants judged at least two trials a year.

Ted
You completely took my post the wrong way...I am glad you proved me wrong...I could only come up with six names..Please do not associate me with others on this thread, I openly admitted I was wrong...Lets see who else has the nads here on the RTF to do that
 

I am pretty sure that you are wrong about this, Bon.

Off the top of my head, I can think of the following:

Ed Aycock
Robbie Bickley
Duncan Christie
Julie Cole
Jason Fleming
Chris Hatch
Linda Harger
Roy Morejon
Larry Morgan
Jim Powers
James Roberts
Carl Ruffalo
Chuck Schweikert
Dave Seivert
John Stracka
Ray Vreeland
Al Wilson
Lyn Yelton
Gary Zellner

Ted
I agree Ted. Add Jeff and I to the list:

I qualified Rocky (AFC Mitimat Rock Paper Scissors) for the 2013 NARC, and judged the Open at Manitowoc and the Am at Lincoln Trail. (And was committed to judging two other AA stakes in 2013, but the trials were both rescheduled to dates that I could not do, as I was working a more than full time job and couldn't accommodate a relatively last minute change..)

I know that Jeff judged two AA stakes the year that we qualified FC AFC Jewel for her first NARC the following June.

I know there are more, I hope they post.
 
Discussion starter · #263 ·
You completely took my post the wrong way...I am glad you proved me wrong...I could only come up with six names..Please do not associate me with others on this thread, I openly admitted I was wrong...Lets see who else has the nads here on the RTF to do that
My apologies

Ted
 
Image
Originally Posted by BonMallari
You completely took my post the wrong way...I am glad you proved me wrong...I could only come up with six names..Please do not associate me with others on this thread, I openly admitted I was wrong...Lets see who else has the nads here on the RTF to do that


You were wrong Bon. ;-)
One of the best comebacks I've seen here in some time. Hats off to you, Golddogs, and to your "nads".
 
I'm curious - just what does Marvin sound like to the great one?
That's a gimme......You're starting to sound like Bon :razz::razz:
 
Point taken. Since at some point you quite obviously considered yourself prepared to judge without ever having judged before, perhaps you could share the methods you used to discharge this responsibility to be prepared in the manner you describe.
I started in the sport wanting a well mannered hunting dog - I did what I was told to do during training sessions & observed. The only book
available was James Lamb Free of which I have several copies. There were no videos, there was an occasional Judges Seminar. there were no
clinics, if you needed to correct your dog there were humane ways to reach them & of course, your tennis shoes. There were no training aids.
So I did what they say you should do, I learned from experience with dogs in the field. I threw a ton of birds, planted a few
blinds, & judged a ton of sanctioned & picnic trials. A 500 mile one way trip on 2 lane roads was rarely done. The trials were also small enough
you could watch all dogs in all stakes.

By the time I co-judged my 1st AKC Derby with Gus Rathert (1965 NAFC Rebel Chief of Heber) in 1969 I already had my 2nd self trained AA dog,
mostly done by working alone after work & with a group of folks on weekends. Though when I worked in the mines I had Bob Sparks & his Yellow
dog, FC-AFC Copper City Buck & his Derby dog at the time who became 1967 NFC-AFC Butte Blue Moon to watch during training. Sometime after
that I judged with Richard Ellis (FC-AFC Lucifer's Lady) & Marvin Hoffman (AFC Allo-Dere-Louise). I don't remember which one was 1st & am too
lazy to look it up.

I became more confident in what I could be done spending about 20 years day training at least once a week with one of the top pro's in the country.
I learned a lot about bird placement from the late Mike Greene. When I agreed to an assignment I judged with whoever the club put with me. That,
along with those who questioned on occasion by competitors who also judged as to why they were not called back told me there were people out there
who failed all requirements to be a judge yet were asked to on a regular basis. They also judge twice or more a year!

I used to keep a rough score card on competing dogs to test my knowledge, if you are a competitor in that stake be prepared to wonder what is going
on, serious mistakes just overlooked?

This was reported to me - at a training session there was a discussion about who would you get to judge that was both knowledgeable & fair. The usual
suspects were bandied about until someone whose dog knowledge I have a great respect for said "I'd nominate Marvin - he really likes stylish dogs, knows how
to train one & set the tests that show they can do the job under control while being fair & impartial, as he really doesn't like anyone associated with dogs".
I consider that an endorsement of how I feel because of the source.

Those who train with their fingertips on RTF don't normally have that level of dog knowledge!!!!
 
I'm curious - just what does Marvin sound like to the great one?
Ted can answer for himself. Now I don't know you, but to me on this forum, you sound like a grumpy old man that can't get along with anyone and is used to bullying his way through life.

I also wonder if you are "all hat - no cattle" or not and if I should just put you on ignore. I don't really care what happened in the 60's, nor do I think it is relevant to today's trials. Maybe you could answer a few questions for me.
1 - When was your last all-age placement or jam?
2 - When was the last all-age stake you ran?
3 - When was the last all-age stake you judged?

I assume you have my info in your database.;)

I have couple criticisms of you criteria for determining whether or not someone was qualified to judge an all-age stake.

First of all, it only used one criteria, all-age placements. While important, it's not the whole picture.

Second, there is no time factor. An all-age placement in 1966 is the same as one obtained last week (assuming your database is that current).

So for example by your criteria, an Amateur 3rd from a 25 dog amateur in 1968 counts, but a Res-Jam earned in a 90 dog open last week by a one-dog amateur that does his own training doesn't. :confused:
 
Ted can answer for himself. Now I don't know you, but to me on this forum, you sound like a grumpy old man that can't get along with anyone and is used to bullying his way through life.

I also wonder if you are "all hat - no cattle" or not and if I should just put you on ignore. I don't really care what happened in the 60's, nor do I think it is relevant to today's trials. Maybe you could answer a few questions for me.
1 - When was your last all-age placement or jam?
2 - When was the last all-age stake you ran?
3 - When was the last all-age stake you judged?

I assume you have my info in your database.;)

I have couple criticisms of you criteria for determining whether or not someone was qualified to judge an all-age stake.

First of all, it only used one criteria, all-age placements. While important, it's not the whole picture.

Second, there is no time factor. An all-age placement in 1966 is the same as one obtained last week (assuming your database is that current).

So for example by your criteria, an Amateur 3rd from a 25 dog amateur in 1968 counts, but a Res-Jam earned in a 90 dog open last week by a one-dog amateur that does his own training doesn't. :confused:
1) 1999 -
2) again 1999 - had 2003 born Derby dog placed in 2004 with health issues but ready to run AA in 2006 - looked at judges for 12 trials
I normally run with only one good judges pairing - decided doing the same thing & expecting different results was stupid. Went hunting :cool:.
3) Sometime in early 2000's - don't track that, AKC does.

I don't remember doing an assignment under 50 dogs & as high as 75 - nor do I remember running any of the 25 dog trials so fondly
remembered though I did work one with 20 Open dogs in 3' high snowdrifts with the previous years NC. Won by Mirk of Daingerfield,
2nd was a titled yellow dog, 3rd was the previous years NC, 4th was an FC, actually a fairly good field. It took several martinis to thaw
me out & by them I was unable to enjoy my steak. My experience with 100 dog Opens is, a lot rides on having a good 1st series.

As for greenies, I have enough for a lawn, some very hard earned, most with a deficiency in performance unworthy of any recognition
other than to say we, as a team, participated & finished. My own on the ground experience said there is too much variation in performance
& criteria for award to use.
 
Ted can answer for himself. Now I don't know you, but to me on this forum, you sound like a grumpy old man that can't get along with anyone and is used to bullying his way through life.

.....
Doug, I think you just made his day!

He seems to take a lot of pride in that. :p

JS
 
Doug, I think you just made his day!

He seems to take a lot of pride in that. :p

JS
Everyone usually has, at the least, some redeeming quality. Some people make a point of finding
that quality in another individual, others don't care. I try to strike a balance, there are some who
I do a diligent search to find it, others I do not. If you are in the latter category you have probably
earned that consideration.

I make it a point to defend what I believe in strongly. I usually have a set of facts or experiences
to back up those beliefs.

Sticks & stones can break my bones but names will never hurt me! Many on this forum fall in the IDGARA
what they think as their opinion is meaningless, but there are a few whose opinion I value. That does not
mean they can change how I believe about some issues.

JS, this thread is about FT's. What brings you here? Have you ever had a successful FT dog? Or are you one
of those who is peltless but babbles on?
 
.....

JS, this thread is about FT's. What brings you here? Have you ever had a successful FT dog? Or are you one
of those who is peltless but babbles on?
Well, if it’s OK with you Marvin;


Yes, I have a trial dog.


And yes, I think she has been successful.


And yes, you would probably say I am “peltless” by your definition.


I have 2 red Q ribbons circa 1968 that I still carry around in my truck to keep me motivated when I start to feel things (or people) are getting the best of me. You probably aren’t impressed with 2 red Qs. Most folks aren’t, but for a young, working stiff with 5 daughters under the age of 8 and a hunting dog … Golden Retriever at that … I’m proud of it.


1968 is not very current, I know. But since getting back in the game, it appears I have run MANY, worked MANY and judged a few since YOUR last one. (not that it’s important to ME … those are YOUR benchmarks.) I have never had a titled dog. My AA dog … the only real well-bred trial dog I have ever sought … has only a handful of AA greenies, Open and Am. But she has put on some awesome performances and we have been standing there at the end with some of the best. At least a half dozen judges who have watched us have wanted to be on the puppy list.


What they didn’t know, and what most others didn’t know until recently when I quit running her, is that she has been dependent on phenobarbital since the age of 3. Do a little research on what that does to a dog, both physically and cognitively. Most would have put her on the bench immediately and saved the $$$ because there was to be no return from puppies.


But that’s another thing I’m proud of. I play with the dog I have. Every dog that has come to live with me has stayed for the duration, with the exception of a few gun dog puppies back in the day, that I kept for the purpose starting and selling. I know perfectly well that is contrary to competitive wisdom: “Don’t collect dogs.” And I have absolutely no problem with those who wash dogs. It’s part of life if you want to be competitive and most will re-home a dog that is not working out to expectations. That’s fine. I just love the challenge of trying to get the best out of whatever dog I have. I put a Master Hunter title on a show champion, for God’s sake. I will contend that’s a far greater challenge than taking a Lean Mac pup to the National!


I have always done my own training and have had the privilege of throwing thousands of birds for a couple of the best pros in the game and some outstanding National level amateurs. I have spent winters watching National Finalists day in and day out scorch a test today and fail a test tomorrow.


I do not campaign for judging assignments. In fact, I don’t care to judge, have only taken assignments for a friend who is in a pinch, and don’t even do that any more. I’m sure some will tell you I’m an OK judge and some will tell you I suck. That’s fine. I would rather do my “giving back” in other ways.


But one thing I do know, your attempt to quantify everything and determine anyone’s judging qualifications based on their “pelts” is flawed and ridiculous. You see, you aren’t supervising a bunch of engineers any more and you don’t get to make the rules. By your definition, Dan Marino is also “peltless”. I’m OK being in that kind of company.


So if you think MY dog doesn’t measure up to YOUR standards well, “IDGARA” about your opinion either! Most folks who have seen my dog run a few times will say she’s a damn nice dog.


JS
 
Hmm! Doug you sound a little "elderist" if there is such a word against us older then dirt folks.
Earl, you are not even dry behind the ears yet.

JS
 
Will be 21 years past my first AARP card in September.....You mean you are older then that! Look good for your age. Of course haven't see you for a few years.
Got you beat by a handful, son. :p

JS
 
But one thing I do know, your attempt to quantify everything and determine anyone’s judging qualifications based on their “pelts” is flawed and ridiculous. JS
Our quest is improvement of the various retriever breeds. That we gain personal satisfaction along the way is incidental.
But, & you'll have to take my word for this, the issue is about 50-50 based on the e-mails I have received. Those in the
peltless camp being against what I have presented & those in favor sitting in the camp with pelts.

Will be 21 years past my first AARP card in September....
I am now in my 19th year on Medicare - hope I don't have to use it any more than I have to date :).
 
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