[zeus3925]

Sitting around the clubhouse, the discussion of the future of field trials were an item of discussion. The general feeling is the game has about reached the enjd before its ultimate collapse. Some of the reasons cited were:

1. The average age of the participants is getting much older. Less and less new blood coming up.
2. The costs of training and trialing a dog is beyond the resources of the average working guy with a family. It is nearly impossible to be competitive with an amateur trained dog.
3. Big set ups with big whistles are putting pressure on the amount of real estate available.
4. Entry fees are reaching a level that are acting as a deterrent.
5. A fading amount of camaraderie at FT's.
6. The number of dogs and the degree of difficulty is also pressuring time constraints.
7. It is getting difficult to recruit workers that can devote time for the duration of a weekend long trial.
What say you?

 

[John Robinson]

I have no idea if it's a doomed sport. I agree with most of the points you listed except the camaraderie part. One of the things I most like about field trials are the wonderful friendships I have developed over the years. I believe FTs will be fine with a new generation solving problems and moving on.

 

[1tulip]

How many of those items are also true of HT. I would say most of them (depending upon your personal or your club's experience.) At least, they are true to some degree or another...

Is the cost (dollars and human energy) of putting on a HT or FT much greater than other dog events? (Think pointing dog and spaniel FT's. Think Rally-O or Fly-ball or Obedience or Dock diving.) Which of those dog games are growing, and why???

Let's do some analysis and then think about what we can do about making the retriever game more accessible.

BTW: Where/how do you think SRS could be helpful in this matter? Not that the average Joe wants to do SRS... but the production value of the televised events should stimulate some interest of retriever owners.

 

[1tulip]

As an aside... see the thread on Sanctioned FT's. I think the clubs that genuinely worry about the well-being of the sport should consider the possibility of reviving the Sanctioned Trial Circuit.

Just sayin'.

And before you nay-say or poo-poo my suggestion, please offer a constructive idea of your own.

And one more thing: I got into the game via Sanctioned FT's. These typically are one-day things. If, during those days, I'd had a chance to also attend an associated "retriever-handling-for-dummies" seminar put on by an enthusiastic and knowledgeable member of the sponsoring club, I'd have happily made it a weekend.

 

[EdA]

20 years ago they said Major League Baseball was dead, we tend to believe that we are not replaceable. While some of your points are valid "doomed" may be a bit too strong.

 

[JS]

How long til the competition starts to get easier??

I don't have much longer to wait!

JS

 

[BonMallari]

Sitting around the clubhouse, the discussion of the future of field trials were an item of discussion. The general feeling is the game has about reached the enjd before its ultimate collapse. Some of the reasons cited were:

1. The average age of the participants is getting much older. Less and less new blood coming up.
2. The costs of training and trialing a dog is beyond the resources of the average working guy with a family. It is nearly impossible to be competitive with an amateur trained dog.
3. Big set ups with big whistles are putting pressure on the amount of real estate available.
4. Entry fees are reaching a level that are acting as a deterrent.
5. A fading amount of camaraderie at FT's.
6. The number of dogs and the degree of difficulty is also pressuring time constraints.
7. It is getting difficult to recruit workers that can devote time for the duration of a weekend long trial.
What say you?

1. True

2. Pure myth, perpetuated and fuel by the fact that many amateurs dont have the patience to learn how to train a dog themselves,and its easier to pay someone to do it for them,and then complain that they cant beat the pros...when in fact THEY created the monster themselves by feeding it..The top Amateurs dont fear the Pros, they respect them...its the rest of the field that already goes in with the attitude that they cant beat the pros, the pros know that and frankly it makes their job easier..The top Amateurs love to run the Open because they want to compete against the best competition

3.partially True, but if you ever see/run a trial judged by some of the old timers such as WD Connor, et al...they dont resort to the huge tests, instead they rely on great bird placement, smart tests where dogs eliminate themselves, and not some gimmick set up that they saw at the last training session with their pro..

4. False...entry fees have not even come close to matching the escalating costs of the travel,vehicles,lodging,meals...I can enter a dog in a trial for less money than it cost me for a nice dinner at one of my favorite restaurants

5. False...its always been a sport with small cliques, usually divided by regions or socio/economic classes..the Sat. tailgate party may have disappeared at many venues,but many now choose to follow their pro and his clientele...all you have to look at is Pre National training groups...there are some lifelong friendships that have endured longer than marriages and are only ended when someone unfortunately departs the world

6. True/False- in a typical Open, how many entries are a legit threat to win the trial, it also goes back to who may be judging...now in an Amateur nearly the entire field is a threat to win the trial

7 ABSOLUTELY TRUE: this might be the achilles heel of the FT game, there are so many clubs across the country that are controlled by a one/two person entity and their ability to commandeer,cajole,coerce the help needed to pull off a trial..These dynasty's(some might use the term dictatorships) make the majority decisions on who will judge,what grounds are used,and when the events will happen...entire clubs/events have disappeared from the roster when those people are no longer around or their grounds are no longer available to the clubs or their "new " membership has shifted the club's focus from FT to HT

 

[Criquetpas]

As long as there are competitive dog folks field trials will continue. It might not be the field trials of your Dad or your Grandfather, but, the show will go on. As a old timer I have watched 5 decades of trials and various evolutions. Better bred dogs, better training methods and money that many folks are ready to put in the "money hole" are still there. I have seen folks work part-time jobs, plus their real job, just to pay for the running of their dogs. I know personally, one fellow who took a second mortgage out on his house to campaign his AFC, now, long out of the game. There are folks who have used credit cards to pay for their professional trainer's fees and not out of making bill paying easier. There are folks who breed dogs just to pay for their hobby. Other folks train up young dogs and sell them just to play the game. It could even go full circle, where the rich folks hire help to put on a trial, as was done in the early days. Heck many folks already own the land and the water where trials are held. Some events are even floated around the country under various club names North to South, Midwest to the East coast, then South. West of the Mississippi I am not too familiar except for some clubs in Missouri, where one club some years back went from Wisconsin to the St Louis area. Field trials are far from becoming deceased. Now that doesn't even cover the other retriever venues.

 

[Good Dogs]

"6. The number of dogs and the degree of difficulty is also pressuring time constraints."

If the "number of dogs" presents a problem it would not seem the sport is in decline.

As for the age thing, on the circuit we play, yes there are stalwarts who have played the game for decades. But there are also younger and very competitive individuals playing as well. I'd like to see actual numbers that validate the claim that the "average age of participants is getting much older."

Having said that, any organization needs to be cognizant of the need to recruit and develop new members and participants. I've been very fortunate to have an experienced mentor who has helped me and my dogs reach levels I never thought attainable. And others who have played the game much longer than I who have encouraged and supported our efforts. Those folks represent the key to future success of the sport and I'm indebted to them.

 

[LESTER LANGLEY]

As for #2-- Carl/George, Lauren/Slider, Bill/Ammo, Lee/Jolie, Lanse/All of them, Bogusky/Sweet Charlie/Mickey, Jim/Willie, etc. etc. etc........... didn't get the memo. #3 Quality grounds in general are a precious resource. #4 If the entry fee is a big deciding factor in someones participation in the sport, they might need to rethink they're choice of hobbies immediately. #7 A limited number of people are doing a tremendous amount of work. Again, a precious resource. Just my two cents.

 

[Scott Adams]

Perfect response Bon.
There are some folks that have their dogs pro trained and still make an effort to help new people into the game, but not nearly enough.
The other side of that coin:
There seems to be a much higher percentage of new people who quit the game after sending their first email, seeking help. You don't even get to see their dog, before they quit. There is a new guy out lately who seems to be a keener. Before him, the last dedicated trainer to come to our amateur group, and stick around for a while, was more than 7 years ago.

 

[swliszka]

My two cents. Zeus asks valid questions and I agree w/ BonMallari on all w/an addition. As an avid amateur his #2 response is a home run . I have been forced due to geographic relocation to have used a pro for winter training phases - the reason being the lack of water facilities (150 mile roundtrip)and work. I hated it and still do. My ego demands my input for competitive purposes.My hobbies require me to do as much of what I do by myself to obtain satisfaction , otherwise it has little or no value. Yes , others have a totally different approach , buy the dog, buy the pro, buy your just rewards. Different strokes for different folks.
My other reflection is that some have pro trained dogs that become successful under a pro but are asked to judge .In my estimation about half of these folks are capable of understanding judging/set-ups. They often use training set-ups instead of using the terrain. Total opinion.

 

[DSemple]

As an aside... see the thread on Sanctioned FT's. I think the clubs that genuinely worry about the well-being of the sport should consider the possibility of reviving the Sanctioned Trial Circuit.

The titles from and the participation in the Hunt test caused the decline of the sanctioned trials.

Don

 

[EdA]

The titles from and the participation in the Hunt test caused the decline of the sanctioned trials.

Don

Add to that most of the clubs on my circuit have barely enough people to put on 2 field trials a year.

 

[Gunssmoke3217]

I am 27 years old and I sure hope that it isnt doomed. I belong to a retriever club and there are only a handful of members under the age of 30.

 

[Tim Carrion]

Doomed? No Need to evolve? Yes

Retriever FTs have always been a game dominated by "older" people with time and money. The fulltime worker with a family/children/career obligations has never been a large group at FTs. Over the years some of the 20yo's have appeared for a short time, disappeared and then re-appear when the kids are gone.
Field trialing has always been expensive. 50 years ago an all-age entry was $30 when gas was 40 cents and minimum wage $1.85. It's all relative.
Grounds and workers is IMHO is where FT must and will evolve. The 4 stake trial will be rare, grounds will dictate this. Gun and game laws in certain areas will force some changes. More workers will be paid and we may see the creation, or re-creation, of a service that puts on a trial just like we have EE now.
Dogs will continue to get better and people will still want to prove that their dog is the best.
There will still be a place for them to prove it!

Tim

 

[farmbabe]

Don't feel bad- horse shows have been having the same problems and asking the same questions.

Young families generally don't have the time and money for hobbies that can get expensive,that you must travel to and spend free time training the animal. Its an age old problem an there are not easy answers except keep plugging away- make the FT fun for all ages,give eveyone at every level a place and chance to compete and encourage new people by making them welcome. Good luck

 

[John Robinson]

It takes a special dog and a total commitment in training to make a successful all age dog. An amateur can do it without Pro help, but the time commitment is daunting. Along with that you need high quality, dedicated amateur partners who are equally committed along with good grounds. I'm lucky to live in a semi-rural area that has some really good grounds, good training partners come and go, and being self employed with no kids, my time is flexible. For a younger person with a less flexible job and kids to support in after school activities, I would think it is practically impossible to train, let alone commit to all the travel and entry fee cost.

 

[HiRollerlabs]

We worked our first trial in 1995. At that trial, Strandberg and Smith were having a somewhat heated debate about where the sport was headed. One comment was that there were only gray-haired people playing the game. Same argument, 20 years later and the game goes on.Sanctioned trials--clubs we belong to used to host sanctioned trials in the winter. $10 a dog to enter. Weather sometimes really cold and snow deep, and those non members who came to run rarely threw a bird. Clubs weren't as exhausted from hosting two large field trials and 2 large hunting tests each year. Sanctioned events gave way so clubs could put on more Member and Licensed events, and have money to pay property taxes, buy more land, develop land, buy and maintain equipment to care for land.I would like to see the National clubs use the money collected from entry fees to purchase property near active clubs so that clubs had better grounds and the sport would have property that would always be available. I would also like to see the folks who have 30+ dogs with pros all over the country, add to the money used for land acquisition . These folks never judge or marshal or throw a bird or chair an event. Without the good people who volunteer their weekends to put on trials and Nationals, there would not be any sport for all of us to enjoy.

 

[HiRollerlabs]

We worked our first trial in 1995. At that trial, Strandberg and Smith were having a somewhat heated debate about where the sport was headed. One comment was that there were only gray-haired people playing the game. Same argument, 20 years later and the game goes on.Sanctioned trials--clubs we belong to used to host sanctioned trials in the winter. $10 a dog to enter. Weather sometimes really cold and snow deep, and those non members who came to run rarely threw a bird. Clubs weren't as exhausted from hosting two large field trials and 2 large hunting tests each year. Sanctioned events gave way so clubs could put on more Member and Licensed events, and have money to pay property taxes, buy more land, develop land, buy and maintain equipment to care for land.I would like to see the National clubs use the money collected from entry fees to purchase property near active clubs so that clubs had better grounds and the sport would have property that would always be available. I would also like to see the folks who have 30+ dogs with pros all over the country, add to the money used for land acquisition . These folks never judge or marshal or throw a bird or chair an event. Without the good people who volunteer their weekends to put on trials and Nationals, there would not be any sport for all of us to enjoy.