[Golddogs]

I could be wrong but I thought the discussion was how many dogs could be entered by an individual in one TRANSACTION. Individuals could enter as many dogs as they want using multiple transactions to do so.

I don't think the AKC has any jurisdiction over how many entries per transaction EE allows, unless the AKC is running EE. Therefore, RHTAC would have no input into the process, either. -Paul

Paul. I agree in theory with you, BUT, I am guessing the AKC would view it as limiting entries to the event, which they have, on many occasions, said they would not approve.

I would be in favor of X # of dogs per entry or owner only.

 

[Dave Kress]

#35 ask about the RHTAC which stands for retriever hunt test advisory committee.
That committee is made up of people in the ht sport
The limited entries and the 15% reserved spots each came from the RHTAC and they got the suggestions from people involved in the sport. You can't make this stuff up and have any better craziness. The AKC gave the ht sport exactly what was asked for.
Dk

 

[jdawber]

I think the owner should enter only one dog at a time. No limit, you can enter as many dogs as you own, one dog at a time. to me that would be the fairest way. John

 

[Sabireley]

If clubs can convince the AKC to allow them to hold an owner-handler master, you could fix this. Clubs might have to hold an Open Master as well, but that is not much different from having to have two flights due to high entries. Maybe not, though. Clubs should have the option of holding a fully owner- handler hunt test with passes counting toward titles, the Master National, and the Master Amateur National.

 

[Sabireley]

Another option is to record judges points associated with a Master pass so the dogs who really excelled in a test get some recognition that separates them from those who barely scraped by. Qualification for the MN and MAN could be points driven so dogs who consistently excel qualify faster than less talented or less trained dogs. Combined with the owner handler HT, you can control entries at weekend HT and at the national level.

 

[Terry Marshall]

Another option is to record judges points associated with a Master pass so the dogs who really excelled in a test get some recognition that separates them from those who barely scraped by. Qualification for the MN and MAN could be points driven so dogs who consistently excel qualify faster than less talented or less trained dogs. Combined with the owner handler HT, you can control entries at weekend HT and at the national level.

A hunt test is against a standard, either they did it or they didn't.... no top bottom or scraped by!

 

[Marty Lee]

there is always "the bubble dog" almost as important as the "beer dog"

 

[Sabireley]

The standard is minimally acceptable to pass. We have all been in the gallery and been wowed by an outstanding performance or two when most of the dogs struggled. The system has problems that prevent those who do all the work from participating. I am simply suggesting ways to reduce numbers by rewarding those who work hard and run their own dogs.

 

[paul young]

The standard is minimally acceptable to pass. We have all been in the gallery and been wowed by an outstanding performance or two when most of the dogs struggled. The system has problems that prevent those who do all the work from participating. I am simply suggesting ways to reduce numbers by rewarding those who work hard and run their own dogs.

Yep! Then you can puff your chest out and say "I won the hunt test". That will be the day I quit judging Master tests....-Paul

 

[Sabireley]

Whatever. All people do is complain about the system and nobody has a solution except the Master Amateur National folks, which still does not address the weekend test entry problem. The judges book has scores and maybe they can be used for something.

 

[Mike Perry]

There is so much BS in this particular discussion to make it laughable.
From pros getting an advantage because they enter all their dogs at one time insinuating that non pros can enter only one at a time (this is not true), to thinking that an am. only stake will alleviate entry pressure (suggesting a different standard for pros and non pros) to the statement that EE likes pros because of reduced credit card fees (another fallacy, the fee is the same as it is a percentage of the transaction whether a large or small amount) to awarding placements at a hunt test. Come on people. placements at a hunt test!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
And now someone is blaming the Master National which has not even had the first event yet.
I am reading this for entertainment value only as there is nothing here of any logical substance.
MP

 

[kevinj]

I am out of town with nothing better to do - so here is my opinion too

although I have never experienced this issue - my pro doesn't seem to have an issue getting my dog entered (I do understand how frustrating it must be to wait for so long for a test to be in your "local" area, only to not be fast enough to get your dog entered)

are the hunts tests not generating revenue for the host club ??? - if not entry fees need to be increased so that the host club benefits from the work and effort to put on a test

would the tests still have enough entries without "pros" that the clubs could still generate revenue from hosting it ??? (I randomly looked at 1 unlimited master test from last summer and 77% where "pro" entries)

you could do the same as HRC and limit to 12 - doubt it would help, as most of the "pros" running more than 12 have assistants capable of running dogs, then they would just both be there (and probably have 24 total, as it takes about 12 dogs per "pro" to divide travel expenses out far enough clients are willing to pay it)

You could limit to 1 dog per entry submission- giving everyone a better chance of getting 1 dog entered - but the "pros won't go due to expenses and test may not fill up - and the "amateur" with 2 dogs might only get 1 dog entered (which isn't good for them, with limited time to run tests and having to cover their expenses)

you could make the owners enter their own dogs - "pros" would not show up and test may not get filled

my take - open the registration for the first hour with only owner entries (owner name must = handler name)(so "pros" could enter their personal dogs in the first hour), then after that hour remove the requirement for owner name = handler name

that would solve the issue as fairly as possible- in my opinion

 

[Todd Caswell]

I am out of town with nothing better to do - so here is my opinion too

although I have never experienced this issue - my pro doesn't seem to have an issue getting my dog entered (I do understand how frustrating it must be to wait for so long for a test to be in your "local" area, only to not be fast enough to get your dog entered)

are the hunts tests not generating revenue for the host club ??? - if not entry fees need to be increased so that the host club benefits from the work and effort to put on a test

would the tests still have enough entries without "pros" that the clubs could still generate revenue from hosting it ??? (I randomly looked at 1 unlimited master test from last summer and 77% where "pro" entries)

you could do the same as HRC and limit to 12 - doubt it would help, as most of the "pros" running more than 12 have assistants capable of running dogs, then they would just both be there (and probably have 24 total, as it takes about 12 dogs per "pro" to divide travel expenses out far enough clients are willing to pay it)

You could limit to 1 dog per entry submission- giving everyone a better chance of getting 1 dog entered - but the "pros won't go due to expenses and test may not fill up - and the "amateur" with 2 dogs might only get 1 dog entered (which isn't good for them, with limited time to run tests and having to cover their expenses)

you could make the owners enter their own dogs - "pros" would not show up and test may not get filled

my take - open the registration for the first hour with only owner entries (owner name must = handler name)(so "pros" could enter their personal dogs in the first hour), then after that hour remove the requirement for owner name = handler name

that would solve the issue as fairly as possible- in my opinion

I really don't believe you do understand what people that train there own dogs, handle there own dogs, and try to enter there own dogs are dealing with when they can't get into a test. Try all three and then report back.

 

[kevinj]

I really don't believe you do understand what people that train there own dogs, handle there own dogs, and try to enter there own dogs are dealing with when they can't get into a test. Try all three and then report back.

You just assume I haven't!?!?


i have - entering tests at that time wasn't an issue (or at least I never experienced it - but that was prior to EE era )

do you not want to answer one of the questions I posed or debate my opinion ???

you only want to pick out one small part of what I posted in an attempt to be a smartass ??? That will solve the problems

 

[Todd Caswell]

I didn't have to assume anything, you said in your post " my pro doesn't seem to have an issue getting my dog entered " So I took that as your Pro does it all for you and in your opinion if you had to enter your own dog and if enough of your Pro's dogs didn't get entered your Pro wouldn't go and the test would not fill up. My opinion is the clubs and the game would survive if everyone ( the owner) had to enter there own dog.

 

[kevinj]

I didn't have to assume anything, you said in your post " my pro doesn't seem to have an issue getting my dog entered " So I took that as your Pro does it all for you and in your opinion if you had to enter your own dog and if enough of your Pro's dogs didn't get entered your Pro wouldn't go and the test would not fill up. My opinion is the clubs and the game would survive if everyone ( the owner) had to enter there own dog.

you didn't have too - but you did

if you have to say "I took that as" you are assuming

and yes he does it all at this point - and he has never mentioned not being able to get in a test that he had planned on entering

would the tests still fill up ??? (Notice the question mark)

i didn't find any test in the last few years that had less than 50% "pro" entries - and can't seem to ever remember any that where (although my experience with hunt tests only goes back to 1999), maybe it just my area. Are there tests where the majority of the entries are owner/handler ???

i respect your opinion- but for now with my current work schedule/load I will be thankful those are not the current rules

 

[fishduck]

My criteria for newcomer has always been the plastic Vari-kennel in the back of a pickup truck. Just don't see much if any of these guys anymore at a Master test. The amateurs left in the 3rd series of a Master test will have well trained dogs, they will train with a group and they have access to tech water. Maybe the MARC will encourage more to handle their own dogs. That is IMHO good for the game and might help replace some of the missing new blood.

 

[paul young]

Whatever. All people do is complain about the system and nobody has a solution except the Master Amateur National folks, which still does not address the weekend test entry problem. The judges book has scores and maybe they can be used for something.

They are used for something. They define who passed the standard set forth in the Regulations.-Paul

 

[Thomas D]

Whew! Thanks Paul. I was thinking all that scoring I did over the years meant nothing

 

[Nate_C]

My criteria for newcomer has always been the plastic Vari-kennel in the back of a pickup truck. Just don't see much if any of these guys anymore at a Master test. The amateurs left in the 3rd series of a Master test will have well trained dogs, they will train with a group and they have access to tech water. Maybe the MARC will encourage more to handle their own dogs. That is IMHO good for the game and might help replace some of the missing new blood.

I doubt the MARC will help. How many guys do you think with a vari-kennel in the back of the truck will be abler to take a week off and spend 1000 bucks to run the MARC? The MARC is going to provide additional opportunities for the guys already deeply into the sport. Which I think is a good thing but will not help the new guy issue. I am concerned too about these guys. I am in, nothing good or bad is going to get me out. But I have a friend who is getting into the sport. Got his SH and worked really hard to get his dog ready for Master this spring. Tried to get into 6 of the local HT here and got into 1 and wait listed on another one with a fair chance. The other 4 he would be so far back on the wait list that it was pointless. The guy is pretty frustrated with that and the fact that entry fees are now getting up to 100.00. He is younger guy just got married and bought a house. He might quit after this year. I think this type of guy could be lost.