[Rhenee Fadling]

Would you expect to see decoys used in an HRC Seasoned water blind?

 

[Raymond Little]

Actually, I would HOPE to see decoys used but that's just me.

 

[Peter Balzer]

I would expect to see decoys in the Seasoned water blind, but they should be near the "line to the blind." Generally should be offset.

Also another point on decoys in all venues. I wish they would put out more than 3 or 5 decoys for authenticity. Who hunts with 3 decoys??

 

[fishduck]

I would expect to see decoys in the Seasoned water blind, but they should be near the "line to the blind." Generally should be offset.

Also another point on decoys in all venues. I wish they would put out more than 3 or 5 decoys for authenticity. Who hunts with 3 decoys??

Since authenticity is needed. Can you fail for blowing a duck call that sounds like a kazoo? I may need to buy a new duck call.

 

[big trax]

Would you expect to see decoys used in an HRC Seasoned water blind?

I've only been running HRC for three years, but I can't remember a test that didn't have them. I will say I thought my dogs were ok with decoys because I throw some out when training from time to time. However, one dog I was running in seasoned on land discovered the first Candada goose decoy he'd ever seen. He checked it out and then went on and picked up the mark...had me sweating. Just last weekend, I had a female jump into the water for the memory bird and proceed ten yards on a direct line to the bird. She saw a decoy and turned 90 degrees left and swam to the decoy. Ended up handling her...we were otherwise clean and I had run with decoys all week long - I mean every day.

They have brains between those ears - can't ever tell what they are thinking.

 

[Rhenee Fadling]

I have seen anywhere from 3-4 decoys, to a full Canadian goose spread, but these were part of the marks. Specifically, interested in whether or not you're seeing them in the water on the way to the blind. I'm with Peter, in that if they are used, they should be close to the line/water entry point for a seasoned level dog.

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

...... Who hunts with 3 decoys??

early season of the split I will hunker in a spot ducks fly to after the big spread main channel hunters shoot.
I will put out one hen mallard and a couple teal decoys. I will limit out before the main channel fellers pour the second coffee.
I used to put out dozens, I don't now.

 

[Tobias]

early season of the split I will hunker in a spot ducks fly to after the big spread main channel hunters shoot.
I will put out one hen mallard and a couple teal decoys. I will limit out before the main channel fellers pour the second coffee.
I used to put out dozens, I don't now.

I have been thinking of using this technique in an area that gets a lot of pressure. Trying to find some small water to do it in. I use a canoe to get where I am going, so going lightweight is better.

 

[BrettG]

Late season on public land 3-5 works pretty good for me.

 

[NateB]

add info

early season of the split I will hunker in a spot ducks fly to after the big spread main channel hunters shoot.
I will put out one hen mallard and a couple teal decoys. I will limit out before the main channel fellers pour the second coffee.
I used to put out dozens, I don't now.

Location, location, location..... What you have said shows the power of scouting, being open minded, and watching the ducks. My buddy and I hunt N. Dakota with usually a dozen mallards, occasionally a dozen bluebill decoys too, and have had great shoots. If you are where they want to be then it does not take a big bunches of decoys.

I would not be surprised to see decoys in a seasoned water blind. A nice bunch they have to swim thru but not "too" close. In a Master test I once saw, the key memory mark was past a point of land, toward a second point of land. In between the spots, invisible from the line was a single decoy sitting there are bright and easy to see. Like it was teasing the dogs. Most dogs stayed with their mark and ignored the decoy. Something else to add to a training scenario, the ambushing decoy!!

 

[JJaxon]

Yes, you should encounter decoys in all phases of testing in HRC. Land or water, marks and blinds. Don't you train with them from young dogs to adults?

 

[22899]

To play devils advocate:

I agree the use of decoys should be used in ALL levels of HT's.... But Where and when is an important consideration..

Consider these statements from the rule book, and the Seminar... about Seasoned dogs,and tests.

"The dog is being tested for its MARKING ability,,not Handling"
"The standards for control and performance on BLINDS for Seasoned dogs,are less than those for Finished and Grand dogs"...
"Avoid setting up water blinds with tight angles to the bank.A well planned blind placement should ENCOURAGE (Not Divert, IMHO) the Seasoned retriever to take a good line"
Cover changes and other "Factors" (Diversions ?) that may NOT be a problem for dogs with ADVANCED BLIND running skills, should be avoided at the SEASONED level. "

So while I agree that decoys should be used in tests,,at all levels.... Where you place them,, and When you use them,, in my opinion should be well thought out.

A small group of decoys placed so as to be a deliberate diversion (A factor) off to the side of the "Line" to a Seasoned blind, that would entice the dog to go to them,, IMHO,, shouldnt be used .

A small group of decoys set off to the SIDE of a Marking test,where the dog is aware of them but they wont influence or distract the dogs focus of a thrown mark,, is OK with ME....

Just MY opinion..

Seasoned is about young dogs MARKING,,and,,,, their ability to show some level of control, running cold blinds with little to light cover over easy terrain, with FEW factors..

Gooser

 

[Rhenee Fadling]

Thank you Gooser. Appreciate your thoughtful and concise response.

 

[Rick Hall]

From a practical standpoint, how decoys "should" be used in Season doesn't matter nearly as much as how they are, which has been all over the map in my relatively limited experience. Most problematic for us was the suction of short-stringed lone decoys that had drifted away from whatever spread, large or small, was employed. Pups accustomed to working with decoys, but not poison birds, apparently expected the loner to be a target.

 

[Thomas D]

The lone decoy floating at a distance will fool an experienced dog.

 

[fishduck]

The purpose of decoys is to decoy ducks. Decoys can be used to lure dogs in the wrong direction. Seasoned dogs are very easily fooled and shouldn't have to deal with that kind of foolishness.

The 3-5 decoys are nice when you are the one assigned to pick them up at the end of the test.

 

[Tobias]

By the time a dog is running blinds (handling) it should have seen decoys in the water and been accustomed to them. It doesn't take very much training for a dog to learn to ignore decoys.
Marking is of a primary importance. But we are talking about HUNTING dogs in HUNT tests. I am getting ready to take (14 mo) Toby on his first hunt and I expect he should not have any problem with the decoys as we train with them regularly, including running blinds through them.

 

[22899]

By the time a dog is running blinds (handling) it should have seen decoys in the water and been accustomed to them. It doesn't take very much training for a dog to learn to ignore decoys.
Marking is of a primary importance. But we are talking about HUNTING dogs in HUNT tests. I am getting ready to take (14 mo) Toby on his first hunt and I expect he should not have any problem with the decoys as we train with them regularly, including running blinds through them.

I agree with everything you just stated.. But,, this is OUR OPINION....

If you go back up to my previous post,and consider example statements from the venues RULES and SEMINAR ,, dont you believe THOSE STANDARDS are what should be considered first?

 

[MikeJFalkner]

Lots of good comments here. I marshaled Seasoned this past weekend at Southern Flight HRC. On the water series in our flight, the hunt committee was all spun up about dogs sucking to a winger on the blind - in two days, none of them did. However, about 70% of them swam out and nosed the nearest decoy along the way to the blind. We got a big laugh out of this - both of the (experienced) judges had thought the deke's were set such that an experienced dog would never even notice them.

In response to the OP, yes they should be incorporated into water tests. But as has been stated well already, the goal is not to factor a seasoned dog to death.

 

[22899]

I mean ,,when you consider the Venue suggests for SEASONED dogs,, that the blinds should not be influenced by ANY other part of the test... The marks or marking part of the test cant influence the blind. the Venue even suggest you separate and move the line away from the line you ran the marks from.. As stated earlier, the venue suggests you dont incorporate a cheaty shore line or anything that would hamper a dog taking a good initial line.. The seasoned blind should be run through low cover, and very little terrain...
Why then would we introduce a few decoys placed so as to create a diversion deliberately? And if we move them so they are so removed they dont influence the dog at all,, then what is the purpose other than a photo op,, or making it realistic looking for the handler?

Why would we make the Standard more than what it is?

JMHO>>

Again devils advocate..