[Marvin S]

Even now it comes across as ridicule, not of Randy, but of Jeff. I would concur with Jeff, that on this issue, and on this forum, Randy's your guy if you are trying to deal with voice-vocal issues. I know from training partner experience that fixing voice issues is very hard if not impossible.

Easiest fix is to sell the dog to a hunter.

 

[bamajeff]

Even now it comes across as ridicule, not of Randy, but of Jeff. I would concur with Jeff, that on this issue, and on this forum, Randy's your guy if you are trying to deal with voice-vocal issues. I know from training partner experience that fixing voice issues is very hard if not impossible.

Thanks John!

 

[Randy Bohn]

Gotta luv this site....
We have gotten noise wash outs from Lardy...Van Engen....Pat Burns...can they fix noise? Absolutely but they choose not to...takes alot of time ...alot of time!! We have also gotten dogs from other trainers who thought they could but they really couldn't fix the noise. If you have a dog running hunt tests at an early age and don't monitor certain issues or if you run alot of derby stakes to get on the derby list your asking for trouble down the road..be smart that's all....in the long haul does it matter if your dog has a JR Hunter at 8 months of age? Or you've run 30 derbys and finally got 10 points?

We sent the latest noisy dog home 2 weeks ago, we fixed him up in 6 weeks, owners came in and relearned a few things and so far so good at home...the next one came in last week and WOW WOW WOW, she's really out there....time will tell but both dogs had different problems which still equalled a bad noisy dog....Randy

 

[Scott Adams]

I wonder if there are some dogs, that no matter what, will always be noisy. I'm sure an amatuer can fix the problem usually, if they know how, and they get on it early enough, but some dogs.......

I had one that would have been a problem, but I recognized it early and I did not tolerate it. The issue never took hold.

 

[swliszka]

Check the parents and grand parents for vocalization tendencies. It is inheritable. I have seen it. Be prepared.

 

[Rick Hall]

Easiest fix is to sell the dog to a hunter.

Screw that. Only thing worse than a singing dog at the blind is a singing and dancing dog - which appears the inevitable second act.

 

[Marvin S]

Screw that. Only thing worse than a singing dog at the blind is a singing and dancing dog - which appears the inevitable second act.

I had a dog that along with being a little vocal did not know what heeling meant
at a trial. As Lanse Brown said to me "you aren't liked well enough to think you can
get away with that". So the dog went to a hunting home. Proceeded to be the "Alpha"
dog though the owner had been told, "Don't let that happen". If singing & dancing
would have been all he did it would not have been so bad, by our standards, but he
beat up the golden they owned & used the very expensive newly manicured fish pond
as his personal play area.

Got some greenies in the minor stakes while knocking on the door to other color. The
dog never got out of line during training.

But in the end the guy came back & let me know he'd take the next washout, so I
guess he was happy, figure that out with how we think!

 

[mjh345]

John, I greatly respect your input, opinion, and courtesy on this forum.
I didn't mean any ridicule with my second post I meant a good dose of sarcasm though
The sarcasm stems from Jeff admitting that he's new to the game, yet he can still make the pronouncement that he know who is "by far and away the most knowledgeable and experienced in solving this issue."

I made a one word response to that claim. That one word was: .... . "REALLY"
I stand by that response because I don't think you can say anybody in this game is far away more advanced, or knowledgable experienced in solving any issue then everyone else. You apparently agree with me this is one of the most difficult issues there is to solve, and most definitely would not be one that could easily solved over the internet
More importantly and more germane to the point the original poster whom I have had private conversations with, is about to get his first lab puppy. He was not asking how to solve this problem he was asking how to avoid it from ever appearing.
So for the sake of this discussion let's assume that Randy Bohn is by far and away the most knowledgeable and experienced at solving this problem.
I would still give the same advice to anyone.
Do your best to avoid ever having the problem and needing to call on the expertise of Randy Bohn in this matter

 

[bamajeff]

More importantly and more germane to the point the original poster whom I have had private conversations with, is about to get his first lab puppy. He was not asking how to solve this problem he was asking how to avoid it from ever appearing.

I'm pretty sure he asked how to correct it once it had already started unless I'm reading it wrong. To correct is to fix something that's already happening. To prevent means to keep it from happening in the first place. I may be new to the dog game, but I have been reading for a while

So what would be the steps to correct the whining/barking??

NNK

And I totally agree with you that prevention is the best means of not having the issue. Correcting/fixing an established behavior is a much more difficult undertaking.

 

[mjh345]

I'm pretty sure he asked how to correct it once it had already started unless I'm reading it wrong. To correct is to fix something that's already happening. To prevent means to keep it from happening in the first place. I may be new to the dog game, but I have been reading for a while



And I totally agree with you that prevention is the best means of not having the issue. Correcting/fixing an established behavior is a much more difficult undertaking.

read the part where I said the original poster and I had had private conversations. He very clearly told me that he is getting a new puppy and he wants to prevent it from arising in that puppy.

Or if that's not good enough for you Jeff read the title to his other thread that he started

 

[Big Chief]

And the OP has arrived. LOL.

Nope, on this thread I was looking for input from judges on just how prevalent this issue is. I felt judges would be the best to answer, as they see so many dogs in high stress situations. I have literally read hundreds of pages of threads on this forum in the last few months while I have been waiting for my pup. In large part because I bought what a trainer passed off on me as a finished dog that had a helluva vocalization problem.His drive was off the charts, and he had a lovely personality, but I could not live with the incessant whining and barking. As you can imagine, I sold him at a loss. Expensive lesson, but that's a story for another time.

Now if you look, I started another thread where I ask for specific strategies to help avoid the problem from ever taking root in a dog.

I must say that there are boatloads of threads on vocal dogs, but from what I can see, there are comparatively few threads that give Joe Blows like me the strategies to avoid it altogether or nip it in the bud when its ugly head arises.

 

[bamajeff]

Here's a couple of threads with info on the subject:
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?91665-Young-noisy-fire-breathing-dog

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?89174-For-the-fire-breather-dog-owners

 

[Thomas D]

Saw a dog at the 16 Master National
Come out of holding blind barking on walk up, barked thru triple and end up getting plate. Go figure.

 

[EdA]

And the OP has arrived. LOL.


Now if you look, I started another thread where I ask for specific strategies to help avoid the problem from ever taking root in a dog.

I must say that there are boatloads of threads on vocal dogs, but from what I can see, there are comparatively few threads that give Joe Blows like me the strategies to avoid it altogether or nip it in the bud when its ugly head arises.

This is an issue that even gives veteran Joe Blows like me problems. The one constant is that when the vocalization begins in a young dog people think it cute and allow it to go unchecked. Dogs that are nuisance barkers by nature are probably helped by taking a zero tolerance for barking in the kennel, while driving down the road, and while other dogs are working. I think some of the problem that these noisy dog's behavior is from excitement and they don not know that they are doing something and therefore cannot be taught that it is unacceptable. There is also a great distinction between a dog who yips from excitement when sent versus one who whines and barks on line while the birds are being thrown.

LINE MANNERS 24. When called to be tested, a dog should come
tractably at heel and sit promptly at the point designatedby his handler and remain quietly where placed untilgiven further orders. Retrievers which bark or whine online, in a blind or while retrieving, should be penalized.Loud and prolonged barking or whining is sufficientcause to justify elimination from the stake.

Years ago the smartest dog trainer I have known suggested that to correct a dog for barking the dog must first have to know what it is doing so one approach would be to teach the dog to bark on command. Then you could use a command for bark and a different command for no bark. I don't know if anyone has tried this approach but it makes sense intellectually

 

[polmaise]

Never had one that was allowed to howl or bark, never tolerated one to even make a squeak in the back of the truck over the noise of the brakes if it did. Never had one that was quiet when someone or something was in the yard that shouldn't be . So there is a place and a time when to speak.
If you can condition a dog to make a noise without doing anything . You can condition a dog to Not make a noise. If you can easily do the first you probably don't have the skills to do the second.

 

[Breck]

If you can condition a dog to make a noise without doing anything . You can condition a dog to Not make a noise. If you can easily do the first you probably don't have the skills to do the second.

Interesting observation, thanks.

 

[polmaise]

Interesting observation, thanks.

That's nice

 

[capflyfish]

Hey fellas. Just getting ready to pick up my first lab pup from what a few folks tell me will be a "hot" breeding. I have been reading voraciously, and it seems to me that vocal issues seem to be pretty common and difficult to rectify once allowed to fester. Now I know that reading on a forum where guys bring questions about problems they are encountering may not be a true reflection of how common the problem is. So my question for you folks who spend lots of time judging trials and hunt tests, is what % of dogs that you judge seem to have vocalization issues?

I have judged 50 plus field trials and believe that vocalization is not that common. I do agree that once it starts and is established it is hard to stop. This only one of many potential problems that can occur during puppyhood. A good foundation and consistent standards are very important to prevent these issues from becoming problems. Remember that a solid foundation will last for a lifetime and that every retrieve
is a reward.

 

[HPL]

Seems to me that asking field trial and hunt test folks how many noisy dogs they see at the line is sort of like asking how many homely girls are seen in the Miss America pageant. Seems to me that it would be a self limiting handicap.