[J. Marti]

As some of you know I am intensely interested in retriever history and have done a LOT of research.

One question I have always pondered but never asked before: what was the reaction among Labrador pro trainers, breeders, judges, whomever, when the chocolate Storm Riptide's Star won the 1996 National Retriever Championship? Did anyone ever interview the judges about choosing a chocolate, whether they thought they ever would see a chocolate win the national, what they expected the reaction would be, what they talked about in that judges' conference about who the winner should be?

Are any of the judges still alive?

For those who don't know: I don't have labs, never owned labs, but have a very intense interest in canine history, particularly retriever history. So, I don't care what color a Labrador is but I do know the old theory (early 20th century until maybe mid 1960s in the U.S.?) that only blacks were really good field dogs.
(NOT my theory--but I know it existed big time.)

 

[mwk56]

Rascal's owner, Marilyn Fender, is a member on the forum. You could contact her directly.

Meredith

 

[BonMallari]

If you take a look at the other Finalists the judges showed no color bias, there were two Yellows, and two former National Champions..the winner also happened to be handled by Mike Lardy who also handled two of the other Finalists, to suggest they looked at the color of the dog is preposterous

https://www.theretrievernews.com/uploads/5/0/1/0/50103541/1996_nrc.pdf

 

[pheona]

Bill Daily was one judge. Trained with him like a year before I found out. I had a chocolate grandson out of him. He was a hard headed dog. Loved that boy anyway. I have heard few stories not from Bill so much. This will be interesting to hear. I bred chocolate's.

 

[EdA]

The 1996 NRC was the second National held near Ardmore Oklahoma. Thanks to my recently departed friend Jud Little, whose ranch we unused for series 1-4, as well as all the other properties he secured for us, thanks to the generosity of the other land owners who were Jud’s friends and neighbors. I was FTC in ‘92 and NRC President in ‘96. The winner was not a consensus one (which many NRC winners aren’t) but Rascal’s color had nothing to do with that.

 

[BonMallari]

Bill Daily was one judge. Trained with him like a year before I found out. I had a chocolate grandson out of him. He was a hard headed dog. Loved that boy anyway. I have heard few stories not from Bill so much. This will be interesting to hear. I bred chocolate's.

Bill Daley was a longtime member of the RAC ( Retriever Advisory Committee ) he and his lovely wife Anita are very nice people, Have not heard from him in a few years so I dont know what his status may be, but he is one guy who merits consideration for the RHOF

 

[Steve Shaver]

As some of you know I am intensely interested in retriever history and have done a LOT of research.

One question I have always pondered but never asked before: what was the reaction among Labrador pro trainers, breeders, judges, whomever, when the chocolate Storm Riptide's Star won the 1996 National Retriever Championship? Did anyone ever interview the judges about choosing a chocolate, whether they thought they ever would see a chocolate win the national, what they expected the reaction would be, what they talked about in that judges' conference about who the winner should be?

Are any of the judges still alive?

For those who don't know: I don't have labs, never owned labs, but have a very intense interest in canine history, particularly retriever history. So, I don't care what color a Labrador is but I do know the old theory (early 20th century until maybe mid 1960s in the U.S.?) that only blacks were really good field dogs.
(NOT my theory--but I know it existed big time.)

Oh now lets dont bring color into judging field trials:roll:. Just what we need in this day and age. At least it wasnt a Chesapeake!

 

[Bryan Parks]

DrEd, was there any reaction to the fact he was chocolate? Just in general but not necessarily that it had anything to do with color.

 

[EdA]

DrEd, was there any reaction to the fact he was chocolate? Just in general but not necessarily that it had anything to do with color.

He was a very good dog, that he was also Chocolate was viewed as a bonus. During my tenure in field trials Chocolate Labradors with that level of talent are rare. Interestingly the breeder, who was my friend and former training partner, had no idea he would get chocolates from that breeding and there were two chocolate males. His sire FC-AFC Rippin Blue Thunder was his dog until sold at two for a handsome sum. It is also notable that Rip appears as the maternal grand sire of FC-AFC Barracuda Blue. It is also interesting to me that Rip’s dam side has Honcho, ZIP Code, and Hot Pursuit in consecutive generations. The dam’s sire FC-AFC and DoubleHeader winner Kermit II belonged to another of my training group until he too was sold for a handsome sum. I knew almost all the dogs in Rascal’s 3 generation pedigree, most of them very well.

 

[drunkenpoacher]

Interestingly the breeder, who was my friend and former training partner, had no idea he would get chocolates from that breeding and there were two chocolate males.

Perhaps the dog didn't even know he was chocolate so he remained confident and able to succeed? New tip for chocolate owners, never let your dog look in the mirror.

At least it wasn't a Golden.

 

[EdA]

Perhaps the dog didn't even know he was chocolate so he remained confident and able to succeed.

There was no reason for him to have thought otherwise, his pedigree is virtually all black, the only chocolate in three generations is a bitch imported from Scotland who was the maternal great granddam.

 

[TonyRodgz]

He was the only chocolate of the litter and last picked. Marylin bought him even though was advise not to.

 

[EdA]

He was the only chocolate of the litter and last picked.

Not true, as I stated earlier there were two chocolate males, the breeder kept the other one Rippin Don Diego Delavega call name Zorro. He obviously kept the wrong puppy.

 

[J. Marti]

I was NOT implying, in any way, shape or form, that his color mattered. I was ASKING what the reaction was because there are plenty of people who have said IN THE PAST that black labs are the most talented. I was just interested in the history. I don't own labs, have never owned labs, and likely never will. I was asking whether there WAS a reaction.

Thanks to those who provided some interesting information and those who understood it wasn't some part of a conspiracy or hidden agenda to criticize chocolate dogs.

Clearly the question was out of bounds for some here. Heaven forbid that anyone have any interest in the past or have interest in the human interest side of retrievers.

 

[mwk56]

I guess the summary is a talented dog is just that—and that is what he is remembered for and what was commented on at the time.

Meredith

 

[J. Marti]

My question was prompted by re-reading Mike Lardy's book "Training with Mike Lardy--Volume I." In that book, Mike devotes an entire chapter to winning the NRC with Rascal.

This is the sub-heading to Lardy's article:

In the 56-year history of the National Retriever, no handler has ever won the event five times, and no handler has ever won with a chocolate Labrador retriever. In the 1996 running of this prestigious event, Mike Lardy, who writes one of our most popular training columns, became the first to do both. Mike and NFC Storm's Riptide Star--Rascal--won in impressive fashion over a field loaded with talent. Here, in Mike's own words is the story of that event and that historic win.

Lardy also wrote: "As National Retriever Club President Ed Aycock announced Rascal's victory, feelings of euphoria and relief swept over me. The little brown puppy that owner Marilyn Fender had brought--in spite of my best efforts to convince her to buy a black Lab--had grown into a competitive wonder and had now capture the sport's ultimate crown: National Field Champion."

After reading the sub-heading to the article and then Lardy's account of the trial, in which it seems he himself thought one of his other 3 dogs in the last series was going to win, I thought it was a notable event in retriever history. Apparently, I was mistaken.

Sorry to have offended anyone by asking.

 

[EdA]

My question was prompted by re-reading Mike Lardy's book "Training with Mike Lardy--Volume I." In that book, Mike devotes an entire chapter to winning the NRC with Rascal.
I thought it was a notable event in retriever history. Apparently, I was mistaken.

Sorry to have offended anyone by asking.

After rereading all the responses I certainly did not get the feeling that anyone was dismissive or offended, perhaps you are being a bit too defensive. I provided a historic synopsis while leaving out the gory details. I also provided a historical account of Rascal’s origin which I assumed everyone would find interesting.

 

[J. Marti]

Thanks for your valuable history. Perhaps I am being a bit defensive. I interpreted some of the responses as believing that I implied color was a factor in the judges' choice.

I have learned my lesson . And no, I won't post a link to the article I am writing about white Labradors bred in the UK in the late 1800s/early 1900s. No more 'colorful' posts for me .

 

[RetrieversONLINE]

For the chocolate history folks, two Nationals in Canada have been won by chocolates. Both National Amateurs, the most recent by Ammo-arguably the most successful chocolate ever in field trials. The other was in 2000 by Quik Windstorm", "Chip" which I trained and handled and co-owned with Marilyn Fender. Chip was out of two chocolates, his sire being NFC Rascal!

 

[polmaise]

For the Chocolate History folks , this side of the pond not one single winner in our championships. (unless anyone corrects me) must be something in the ....?