[ripline]

Well done Juli! Give Smarty and extra cookie for us, she deserves it!!
I absolutely LOVE the marking ability of that litter!!

 

[Tobias]

she had a cheeseburger and ice cream cone on the way home. LOL!

 

[drunkenpoacher]

I often wonder how she'd have done on a big dog truck.

I’m guessing the fact that she is not makes that blue ribbon infinitely more rewarding.

 

[Marvin S]

Thanks fellas - have to say I am pretty much still in shock. LOL

So, you won't be needing any more pointers?

 

[Steve Shaver]

Congrats! Good Job!

 

[Chris Atkinson]

Thanks fellas - have to say I am pretty much still in shock. LOL

Details being what they are - I decided to double stake her in the St Louis Golden Retriever Club Qual and the Dardenne Retriever Club master test. I could have entered her in the O/H Q on Fri, but was too cheap to spend the money on another night at the hotel - Plus it was another day of training the other dogs (the two young dogs that give me the 'pro' status on EE, LOL) and being away from my better half.

Last fall Smarty bombed out big time on the flyer of her first Q (my second, if you count my first one several years ago in AK with my chessie). So, we spent the winter training for master tests. After that Q I felt like I just didn't have the resources to effectively train Smarty for field trials - flyer crates stacked up, shot flyers, etc etc. I don't have a FT group to train with. I don't have a lot of access to tech water. In fact the last time we ran marks on anything other than a round pond was last Oct, before the Q. About a month ago, when I decided to give the Q another go, I started stretching her back out.

And then last week she was training like crap. Switching on marks (very unusual for her), not handling on blinds well, vocalizing when I went to train with a hunt test group. I put my thumb down on her on Wed - pretty personal correction. Came back to train on Thurs and she never moved a foot wrong - so I decided to just go up and see if she could manage at least the first series of the test/trial. LOL

She pretty much had a perfect weekend. Saturday we went back and forth between stakes - ht, ft, ht, ft, ... By the end of Sat she was one tired puppy - but ended it on the longest water blind she's ever run (probably not long by most FT'er standards - 160 yd)... She took a perfectly straight line to the point - and worked her ass off for me trying to shoulder the wind the remaining distance (4-5 whistles, but she ended up just past the blind poles and I gave her an over to the blind).

Sunday right off the bat we ran a 'control test' master series with a gunner 10 yd behind us shooting a diversion bird as the dog returned with the go bird...Then went and ran Q water series that took 15 minutes per dog (as I overheard someone say, at any rate). About 700 yd of swimming all told. Smarty has never done a water triple that took that long OR had that much swimming involved. I figured we'd handle on at least one mark. Angle across for a down the shore go bird(laser line), cross a spit of land to the longer middle mark - short hunt deep, and 180 yd swim past the point of the same piece of land she'd just crossed to the memory. She swam a laser line right to the memory mark until the last 30 yd of the swim and then decided (for whatever reason), to shoulder into the wind - backsided the gun station and disappeared from sight for several seconds popped up in the AOF and hunted up her bird. Had my whistle ready for possible the return to the old fall because they were pretty tight marks, and pinched marks.

I truly did not know we would get first place (or any placement) for our efforts - I thought perhaps a reserve jam - .I didn't watch all the other dogs so I really didn't know how they all did. When the jams were read off and I didn't get one I was like, well - we gave it our best.. Watched a few who I thought did a very good job, esp on the water marks...they went through the placements and announced that 'Fourleaf's Valedictorian owned/handled by Juli Bottjen' was the winner. Yes - I was crying when I walked up for our ribbon. LOL

Smarty and I have quite a connection on the line and she is a very good marking dog. In two days she picked up 22 birds, no handles on marks. 5 blinds..... I often wonder how she'd have done on a big dog truck.

This is a very special accomplishment to be quite proud of. Congratulations Julie!

Sincerely, Chris

 

[Tobias]

So, you won't be needing any more pointers?

If there's one thing I've learned in 20 some years of training my own dogs... I will never know all that I want to know about training, or setting up marks.

 

[Tobias]

This is a very special accomplishment to be quite proud of. Congratulations Julie!

Sincerely, Chris

Thank you Chris, I am. I realize to many it is small potatoes.

I am very proud of the fact that I have been able to take Smarty this far without a FT group. Without someone or many someone's standing next to me saying NO NOT THAT WAY. It's taken many many years of trial and error and I still 'F' up a lot. I will continue to learn, until I quit training.

But this weekend was one which I will never forget. I should be lucky to have it happen again.

 

[drunkenpoacher]

I realize to many it is small potatoes.

There are no small blue ribbons.

 

[Steve Shaver]

Thank you Chris, I am. I realize to many it is small potatoes.

I am very proud of the fact that I have been able to take Smarty this far without a FT group. Without someone or many someone's standing next to me saying NO NOT THAT WAY. It's taken many many years of trial and error and I still 'F' up a lot. I will continue to learn, until I quit training.

But this weekend was one which I will never forget. I should be lucky to have it happen again.

Like DP said there are no small blue ribbons.
The rest of your statement rings very true to me. I started with my first HT dog in 2000 and to this date I have only trained one season with a regular group and that was only once a week for the summer. Only education I got was from the old Tritronics book and here also, then it was just working with the dogs and as you said trial and error with a lot of "F" up. I guess you could say my dogs have been my greatest teachers and still are.
My current dog won 2 quals before he was 3 and had a pretty good young dog career. In the minor stakes we had more trials to run because our HT clubs also did a DQ with their HT but no longer do. Now in his All Age career he only gets to run about 5 trials a year and has jammed a couple and been to the 3rd and 4th series multiple time. Had one trial won and bombed on the last bird in the 4th. I seriously believe that if I could run more trials and worked a bit harder at it he could have been FC but now at 7 1/2 I think that is in the rear view mirror but we still try. The first time I jammed an open with a previous dog I felt as though I won the National, it was awesome!!!!! My dog and one other were the only non titled dogs out of 11 to finish that trial. May sound stupid but that was one of the best days of my life.
So dont think you will be lucky to have it happen again cuz it will. I believe hard work, time and experience is the most valuable asset you can possess. I have seen many people do the dumbest things but still be successful because they work hard at it.
Again congrats and keep at it!!!

 

[dr_dog_guy]

I have to agree that there are no small blue ribbons. It sounds as if you both did a stellar job! And you should rightly be very proud of your dog and the hard work you put into training.

 

[Marvin S]

If there's one thing I've learned in 20 some years of training my own dogs... I will never know all that I want to know about training, or setting up marks.

I had the good fortune to train with one of the all-time greats, his quote:
"As I get longer in this sport I find there is not a lot I haven't experienced
but I still pay attention as something new & useful will always come along."

This has a lot to do with the sheer number of of fairly intelligent people
involved in the training aspect of the sport.

As you can see your post has created a lot of attention, so you need to post
dog level views so we can get this thread doing what it should do.

 

[bjoiner]

You should be proud. I can tell you take pride and love your dogs. Any time you are at the line with one is a big accomplishment, and the time should be charished.

 

[Tobias]

I had the good fortune to train with one of the all-time greats, his quote:
"As I get longer in this sport I find there is not a lot I haven't experienced
but I still pay attention as something new & useful will always come along."

This has a lot to do with the sheer number of of fairly intelligent people
involved in the training aspect of the sport.

As you can see your post has created a lot of attention, so you need to post
dog level views so we can get this thread doing what it should do.

I have not been to the field since I posted the photo. Been working with the younger two dogs here on yard work and basic marks... I plan to go out tomorrow and will take several photos from different vantage points.

One thing - I do understand the need to look at a field from the dog's perspective... have known for a very long time. Taking photos from the human perspective shows (at least I think so) a better view of the overall terrain but obviously the dog sees things a lot differently. So, I will take and post photos from both angles.

It was really fun to come to the line and watch the test dogs and see the 'pitfalls' of each mark and blind, and how mark placement in relation to the other marks/terrain/water/wind affected some of the dogs. Some factors, of course, stood right out like a sore thumb... other ones made themselves more evident after watching a few dogs run.....

 

[labsforme]

Julie, congratulations for very well earned accomplishment. When you train don't test, train to a level above what you will be running. Keep a balance between singles and multiples as well as blinds. Keep pushing forward.

Jeff G

 

[Tobias]

Marvin S (and whoever else is interested in continuing the thread on Q marks...

This is a photo and GE of same area (with marks as on the photo). Tail wind on the marks, if possible, although for this area the normal wind would be either quartering away left to right or quartering in right to left, or none at all.

If I was actually doing training - I would try to set up some singles that would deal with the brush --- hitting the correct gap/side of the brush, going over logs. Marks in the photos, around the horn left to right.

 

[Norwester]

Marvin S (and whoever else is interested in continuing the thread on Q marks...

This is a photo and GE of same area (with marks as on the photo). Tail wind on the marks, if possible, although for this area the normal wind would be either quartering away left to right or quartering in right to left, or none at all.

If I was actually doing training - I would try to set up some singles that would deal with the brush --- hitting the correct gap/side of the brush, going over logs. Marks in the photos, around the horn left to right.

View attachment 86340 View attachment 86341

Would you call this an inline triple?

 

[Tobias]

I would - except the flyer is thrown opposite of the other two marks - so not sure if that makes it a 'true inline' (yes, I have been reading the other thread)... I'd run as singles in training. In all, I felt making the middle mark longer was too much like the left hand mark - although you could punch it out there another 50 yd and move it further to the right so that the mark lands near the log in the far back --- 280 yd, I think.

 

[Marvin S]

View attachment 86266

View attachment 86270

View attachment 86340 View attachment 86341

Basic rules of marking tests.
1) Break line of sight using natural hazards - meaning do not let them run too far without having to pay attention to where they are going.
2) Break momentum - again using natural hazards which are in abundance.
3) Use terrain rather than tech if possible, which this location appears to have in abundance.
4) Use natural growth.
5) Use angles of attack that measure your field. the better the field the tighter the angle.
6) A short bird can change a test immensely, especially on water & out of order.

I.ve seen lemon grounds turned into lemonade by utilizing the above. There are certain things dogs naturally do not want to do. When you
find grounds that allow that utilize that help.
If you utilize those things in training & testing your dogs will always be competitive & appear to have been trained.

I showed all pictures as they are not taken from same spot. These are really good grounds! Careful who you show them to.

 

[Tobias]

These are really good grounds! Careful who you show them to.

Thank you Marvin - all that you say I will take to the field. I feel like I am at least halfway decent at picking out a mark that will challenge a dog. But miss a lot I know ... I have a long way to go when it comes to how marks play off one another.
I would love it to have someone with ft exp come here to train - training alone is a lot of work. 😂 when I found these grounds, I knew they would become well used. When it floods here, they might even provide some great water training opportunities.