[mpicasso]

Short term goal: SH, to get my feet wet.
Long term: QAA
Age: BLM, 20 months
Stage: transitioning
My experience: 1st lab, no tests/trials ran

Lessons learned on a recent 200 yard cold-blind, marked with white stakes and 3" bumpers:

1) Not wanting to drive out.
Using attrition. Not concerned

2) Need to blow whistle longer, when at a distance.
Guessing this just follows logic of nature. Sound takes a while to get out there

3) Sloppier whistle sits than should be tolerated
Going back to pile work, to clean up

4) Angled casts need work
Doing 2 piles at about 45 degrees out from me, 30-40 yards out. Sending to one and then silently casting over to the other. Looking for more challenging drills, to grow this out in the backyard. Pro has suggested Dave Rorem's 9's drill, but can find no information of the sort. Have seen scattered bumper drill but Pro seems to favor Rorem.
Wanting to make sure he understands 5 handed casts before moving on and looking for a drill that helps with that.

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[Gregg0211]

Short term goal: SH, to get my feet wet.
Long term: QAA
Age: BLM, 20 months
Stage: transitioning
My experience: 1st lab, no tests/trials ran

Lessons learned on a recent 200 yard cold-blind, marked with white stakes and 3" bumpers:

1) Not wanting to drive out.
Using attrition. Not concerned

2) Need to blow whistle longer, when at a distance.
Guessing this just follows logic of nature. Sound takes a while to get out there

3) Sloppier whistle sits than should be tolerated
Going back to pile work, to clean up

4) Angled casts need work
Doing 2 piles at about 45 degrees out from me, 30-40 yards out. Sending to one and then silently casting over to the other. Looking for more challenging drills, to grow this out in the backyard. Pro has suggested Dave Rorem's 9's drill, but can find no information of the sort. Have seen scattered bumper drill but Pro seems to favor Rorem.
Wanting to make sure he understands 5 handed casts before moving on and looking for a drill that helps with that.

Thanks in advance!!!

Find a program and stick with it from start to finish. Do not jump around. I would also suggest the manual by Carol Cassity "Building a Retriever" and use drills set forth in the book. Its super hard for folks to give advice without actually seeing the dog. If you want internet videos, Freddy King has tons of them that you can gleen some info from. It wont be a popular site on this forum, but there is a ton of help there along with folks that are pretty good trainers willing to help. Just my .02

 

[Tobias]

split casting drill --- 2 or 3 buckets with 6-8 bumpers at each, about 15 feet apart, in a straight line or 25 feet apart if you want to extend those casts and start at a longer distance)

Start at 20 yd. Line dog to each. Back up - repeat. Back up again until dog needs to handle (with three buckets this maybe around the 40-50 yd mark). Don't move back til the dog can line to each one - cast as needed to get to the bucket you originally sent the dog to.

7 bumper lining drill --- can be found on youtube - Hillmann, I think

scattered bumper drill --- also can be found on youtube. I think Kevin Cheff has a very good one

Walking baseball - also on youtube - Evan Graham

using a whistle properly - also on youtube Pat Burns

 

[AllAroundLab]

Short term goal: SH, to get my feet wet.
Long term: QAA
Age: BLM, 20 months
Stage: transitioning
My experience: 1st lab, no tests/trials ran

Lessons learned on a recent 200 yard cold-blind, marked with white stakes and 3" bumpers:

1) Not wanting to drive out.
Using attrition. Not concerned

2) Need to blow whistle longer, when at a distance.
Guessing this just follows logic of nature. Sound takes a while to get out there

3) Sloppier whistle sits than should be tolerated
Going back to pile work, to clean up

4) Angled casts need work
Doing 2 piles at about 45 degrees out from me, 30-40 yards out. Sending to one and then silently casting over to the other. Looking for more challenging drills, to grow this out in the backyard. Pro has suggested Dave Rorem's 9's drill, but can find no information of the sort. Have seen scattered bumper drill but Pro seems to favor Rorem.
Wanting to make sure he understands 5 handed casts before moving on and looking for a drill that helps with that.

Thanks in advance!!!

Just as a matter of terminology since you're learning, it's not a cold blind if it has white stakes visible to the dog.

 

[mpicasso]

Find a program and stick with it from start to finish. Do not jump around. I would also suggest the manual by Carol Cassity "Building a Retriever" and use drills set forth in the book. Its super hard for folks to give advice without actually seeing the dog. If you want internet videos, Freddy King has tons of them that you can gleen some info from. It wont be a popular site on this forum, but there is a ton of help there along with folks that are pretty good trainers willing to help. Just my .02

I have Carol's drill book and been to her seminar. Tend to follow Mike Lardy and Kevin Cheff. I know what the final outcome should look like (referring to Lardy) but not 100% sure how to get there.

 

[mpicasso]

Just as a matter of terminology since you're learning, it's not a cold blind if it has white stakes visible to the dog.

Thanks. 1 white marker, 2 dark green markers laid at 30 degrees, and 2 more outside of those. 5 bumpers, in a line, 30-40 yards apart.

 

[mpicasso]

split casting drill --- 2 or 3 buckets with 6-8 bumpers at each, about 15 feet apart, in a straight line or 25 feet apart if you want to extend those casts and start at a longer distance)

Start at 20 yd. Line dog to each. Back up - repeat. Back up again until dog needs to handle (with three buckets this maybe around the 40-50 yd mark). Don't move back til the dog can line to each one - cast as needed to get to the bucket you originally sent the dog to.

You are using this to gain momentum, correct? White buckets are to mark where dog is driving to? Guessing white bumpers, as the idea is to get dog to drive out? Or orange, as the dog is not 100% sure WHY they are driving out?

7 bumper lining drill --- can be found on youtube - Hillmann, I think

Will check that out.

scattered bumper drill --- also can be found on youtube. I think Kevin Cheff has a very good one

I actually have his diagram. From what I understand, Rorem's pushes this out further, as Kevin's are at 20&40 yards...just cannot find a Rorem casting drill.

Walking baseball - also on youtube - Evan Graham

using a whistle properly - also on youtube Pat Burns

Thanks! Will take a look at both of those. The more I dig, the more I realize I have not scratched the surface to understanding...

Been a long time lurker. Thanks for the welcoming!!!

 

[Tobias]

It's a fun journey.

Yes, the white buckets (or poles) facilitate in lining the dog. I use 2 gal buckets. They carry about 9 bumpers in each. If you do three piles you will find lining to the middle one the most challenging, most likely anyway. Builds confidence and helps teach tighter angle casts (vs 45 degree cast)

 

[mpicasso]

It's a fun journey.

Yes, the white buckets (or poles) facilitate in lining the dog. I use 2 gal buckets. They carry about 9 bumpers in each. If you do three piles you will find lining to the middle one the most challenging, most likely anyway. Builds confidence and helps teach tighter angle casts (vs 45 degree cast)

Sorry for my seeming ignorance...

See above picture. This is what we are doing but at 200 yards. 1 white, down the middle, 2 green, and then none on the outer ones.
To modify this - shorter distance, 3 piles. No backing up until dog continuously drives straight back, correct?

 

[Tobias]

Sorry for my seeming ignorance...

See above picture. This is what we are doing but at 200 yards. 1 white, down the middle, 2 green, and then none on the outer ones.
To modify this - shorter distance, 3 piles. No backing up until dog continuously drives straight back, correct?

The three pile drill is the way I learned it --- using a pole or small white buckets gives the dog a target. When the dog has successfully lined to a target, without veering left or right to a different target, you have a dog that has successfully 'locked on' and not changed his mind mid stream --- this is sort of like extended wagon wheel, at a much longer distance. Backing up makes it more challenging to both read the dog (know which bucket its locked on) and giving casts to slightly change direction. I don't care if the casts aren't perfect because the degree of the angle backs in this drill is pretty tight.... I sometimes think 2 buckets is more fair and more clear cut. The dog knows if you stop him when he has changed his focus on one destination, that you are asking him to change to the only other destination there is... rather than the dog second guessing you on the remaining two piles.

I like to see the dog successfully line to each pile before backing up - but it depends on what you want to get out of the training. It's one of many drills available for tightening up angle backs....

but don't forget to continue working on 'over' casts.... they can be pretty important in some situations... (like going away from a poison bird after getting that first cast refusal, or taking a cast into water, or off a point into water)

 

[polmaise]

3 card trick . If it's drills you seek. Personally ,a straight line in the dogs head rather than it's eyes with colors in a parlour works for me. Great for building confidence in the drills for sure.

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

Warm fresh killed birds and/or live shackled birds at your blind retrieve will perk up most any slow to "drive" out retriever.
As for the drive um out terminology. And fresh birds. Ponder this.....
Do you want you dog running gleefully with Reckless abandon TO something?
Or
Plodding away like Eeyore getting itself AWAY from you?

Fresh birds my friend, fresh birds.

 

[polmaise]

Ponder this.....
Do you want you dog running gleefully with Reckless abandon TO something?
Or
Plodding away like Eeyore getting itself AWAY from you?

Fresh birds my friend, fresh birds.

I suppose the Nurture in the drills and the natural desire in the dog , with the structure of the handler/trainer is pre-requisite. Two bumpers left and right no matter the colour with a fresh bird down the middle with a head wind is a No-brainer. I ponder that if the drill is so successful, two fresh birds left and right with a bumper that is green on green grass down the middle with a tail wind , is a bridge too far in training a novice handler and a novice dog . Surefire way to Test a dog ,rather than train it is to set it up to see if it will complete it in the hope that it does.
...........
As an aside, many common scenarios on our 'Driven live bird shoot days' when 'Picking up' often the dog is required to ignore fresh shot game , or fresh live game that has not been shot, en-route to the intended target (runner, live bird on the hoof with shot scent and blood and adrenaline and game scent and trying for the life of it not to be found by a chasing hound ..lol) not seen by the dog ,but the dog has seen everything else shot and landed . Pretty much like our Field trials all be it a more cordial procedure

 

[rickyrickk31]

I like to see the dog successfully line to each pile before backing up - but it depends on what you want to get out of the training. It's one of many drills available for tightening up angle backs....
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