[GWEvans]

What are the best scenting conditions, in general or specifically (temp, wind speed, humidity, rainy and wet, etc), for a retriever to smell a bird on land?

Is it different for a water retrieve?

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

I am interested in this as well. I have run dogs on scent trails in hunting and testing.
I have drug trails in training and testing.
When judging I try to lay out a fair trail. Not wanting to somehow trick the dogs.
I have seen trailing situations change as dogs run it.
The only thing I know for sure is I do not know as much as I thought I used to know.
And the dogs always amaze me.

Ken

 

[22899]

My personal preference is a cool, moderately humid, late summer or fall day, maybe even a light rain, with a noticible breeze.
Use the breeze to the dogs advantage on days like this, and birds will be easier to find,
Hot dry days , heavy cover,are the worse, along with extreme cold with a stiff wind.
Always keep the dog hydrated with a wet nose..
Early mornings, late afternoons, on prime condition days are my focus.
Just my experience…
Gooser

 

[KwickLabs]

After hunting the backwaters of the Mississippi for many years, there was no "list". Each day is
different and most eventually learn what to do. It would be difficult to make a useful list unless
you record your own. This is best accomplished by keeping a daily journal.

Perspective is easier with notes.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150515200849/http://www.kwicklabs.com/HuntingJounalAchivefall20056.htm

 

[EdA]

I am quite surprised that a forum with so many experts on everything has not produced a concise answer which seems to suggest that no one really knows, not even experts on everything. 😉 Scenting conditions are poorly understood by a species with something less than acute olfactory apparatus. It is stated that dogs sense of smell is forty (40) times more sensitive than that of humans. Oh to be a dog for a time and smell all those things that they can smell.😳 I read that dogs can differentiate more than 250 different scents. Studies have shown that scent rises from an object in plumes rather than an aura so imagine all the environmental factors that can influence the scent from a bird. Heavy cover, light wind, and humidity tend to concentrate the plumes while strong wind, low or no cover, and low humidity tend to disperse the plumes. I do not presume to understand scenting conditions even though I have been observing the affect on dogs for more than 50 years.

 

[Steve Shaver]

I think wind, to one degree or another, is the most important factor. Depending on wind strength a dog can pick up scent from further away. It has always amazed me when a dog can be well off a mark running at full speed can slam on the brakes and make a 90 degree turn to a bird at 50 yards or more away. I have also read that a dog not only smells his food but can smell the individual ingredients in it. Had a book one time called Dog Physiology about dogs in general dating back to the wolf but alot of it was about bloodhounds. It stated a bloodhound can smell a teaspoon of salt in 13 gallons of water.

 

[drunkenpoacher]

I am quite surprised that a forum with so many experts on everything has not produced a concise answer which seems to suggest that no one really knows, not even experts on everything. 😉

Is it even possible that we aren't experts?

Scenting conditions are poorly understood by a species with something less than acute olfactory apparatus. It is stated that dogs sense of smell is forty (40) times more sensitive than that of humans. Oh to be a dog for a time and smell all those things that they can smell.😳 I read that dogs can differentiate more than 250 different scents.

I have learned there are many variables. I am often surprised by very good or very poor scenting conditions and often can't figure out the reason. We are basically "blind" in comparison to a dogs scenting abilities.
One thing I believe to be true, but can't prove, "Dogs smell in 3D". You and I smell a pot of chili, dogs smell beef, onion, beans, tomatoes, pepper..................
Deer have comparable scenting ability and I have spent many hours hunting them with a bow from tree stands. I learned that you can use all the cover scents you want, deer will just smell that in addition to you. I think the primary scent a deer detects is your breath. Similarly, it has been my observation that a dog can often scent a crippled bird at a greater distance than a dead one.
Many times on frosty mornings I have had deer pass down wind without detecting me. I believe because the scent was rising and dissipating. Rain greatly reduces the distance a deer can detect scent (or that scent travels). Don' know how much that applies to dogs and what we do with them.
I have noticed the some types of vegetation, at certain stages of growth can make scenting more difficult, possibly due to pollen getting in their nose?
A friend of mine used to trap fox and was very successful at it. Fox are notorious for their ability to smell a trap. He would collect the fine dust that came off the hay in his dairy barn and cover the traps with it. He said it would get in the a fox's nose so they couldn't smell the trap.

How well a dog uses his nose is another variable most of us have seen. Some dogs have better nose than others as well. Goldens are reputed to have superior noses. In my experience, of 1 Golden, it has proven to be true compared to Labs. The difference is not huge but it is there and can be a blessing or a curse.

 

[Pete]

Is it even possible that we aren't experts?

I have learned there are many variables. I am often surprised by very good or very poor scenting conditions and often can't figure out the reason. We are basically "blind" in comparison to a dogs scenting abilities.
One thing I believe to be true, but can't prove, "Dogs smell in 3D". You and I smell a pot of chili, dogs smell beef, onion, beans, tomatoes, pepper..................
Deer have comparable scenting ability and I have spent many hours hunting them with a bow from tree stands. I learned that you can use all the cover scents you want, deer will just smell that in addition to you. I think the primary scent a deer detects is your breath. Similarly, it has been my observation that a dog can often scent a crippled bird at a greater distance than a dead one.
Many times on frosty mornings I have had deer pass down wind without detecting me. I believe because the scent was rising and dissipating. Rain greatly reduces the distance a deer can detect scent (or that scent travels). Don' know how much that applies to dogs and what we do with them.
I have noticed the some types of vegetation, at certain stages of growth can make scenting more difficult, possibly due to pollen getting in their nose?
A friend of mine used to trap fox and was very successful at it. Fox are notorious for their ability to smell a trap. He would collect the fine dust that came off the hay in his dairy barn and cover the traps with it. He said it would get in the a fox's nose so they couldn't smell the trap.

How well a dog uses his nose is another variable most of us have seen. Some dogs have better nose than others as well. Goldens are reputed to have superior noses. In my experience, of 1 Golden, it has proven to be true compared to Labs. The difference is not huge but it is there and can be a blessing or a curse.

I think the speed of the dog passing through an area has a lot to do with that. A ploting lab can hit scent from a hundred yards off but a lab leaving a con trail can miss it from 5 feet . Flat coats , Goldens ,Chessie's, IWS,Poodles, seem to have incredible noses😁
Pete

 

[drunkenpoacher]

I think the speed of the dog passing through an area has a lot to do with that. A ploting lab can hit scent from a hundred yards off but a lab leaving a con trail can miss it from 5 feet . Flat coats , Goldens ,Chessie's, IWS,Poodles, seem to have incredible noses😁
Pete

That's true, but the Golden I'm familiar with is not slow.

 

[Norwester]

If I had to guess I would say a high relative humidity, calm air, low hanging cloud cover and moderate to cool air temp. A step further would be to throw in what hound guys call "puppy snow" (sticky but not sopping) and only a couple inches of it.
Those days even grandma's old Pug can run

 

[EdA]

Canine Olfaction: Physiology, Behavior, and Possibilities for Practical Applications

Dogs have an extraordinary olfactory capability, which far exceeds that of humans. Dogs’ sense of smell seems to be the main sense, allowing them to not only gather both current and historical information about their surrounding environment, but ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Olddog]

I used to run fox dogs a number of years ago. Once they got a fox running for a while they would run off to the down wind side of the track a lot of times head up. I have read that most dogs scenting ability is close to the same between breeds. The difference is in their level of patience to figure things out.

 

[Norwester]

I used to run fox dogs a number of years ago. Once they got a fox running for a while they would run off to the down wind side of the track a lot of times head up. I have read that most dogs scenting ability is close to the same between breeds. The difference is in their level of patience to figure things out.

I've been told similar and to some degree that is likely the case.

However, I do think there is something more to it than just that.

To use Grandma's old Pug again as an example....he has four legs like every other dog yet all the desire in the world to run the fastest will not make him comparable to a Greyhound.
That's an obvious example of course because we can SEE the difference in traits and characteristics.

With scenting/tracking it's a little more intangible and I don't believe every dog brings the same tools to the work bench so to speak.

I've already stated my best guess at what I consider ideal scenting conditions so here's my guess at the worst.
Low relative humidity with hot air temp and higher wind. In other words it's dry.
Low relative humidity and cold air temp with higher wind. In other words it's dry. (and miserable)

I think cold and dry is actually tougher for scenting but hot and dry brings it's own set of complications.
If your dogs tongue is dragging trying to keep cool his ability to smell a track is greatly compromised and only the best of the best can run or walk a track out under such conditions.

 

[KwickLabs]

My favorite, anecdotal description of scenting conditions happened several years ago when guiding
at Blonhaven Hunt Club. Pointing dogs were the only ones allowed as guide dogs. Taffey had her Master
Pointing Retriever title and we were one of several groups guiding that day. Rather than planting all the
pheasants and chukars at once, they were divided into four smaller sets. None of the clients had ever
worked with a pointing Lab. She was doing really well and then the neatest event occurred.

A pheasant was flushed/shot off her point and she was sent for the retrieve. As she was bringing it back
(in her mouth), she suddenly stopped and struck a very nice point. Someone asked. "What is she doing?'
My reply was "She is on a point." The next comment was "No way!"

I walked up, kicking the cover in front her and a chukar was flushed and shot. Taffey waited (steady)
before delivering the pheasant and then retrieved the chukar. I heard someone say. "No way".

We got the biggest tip ever on that day.

 

[drunkenpoacher]

I heard someone say. "No way".

Please tell us your response was "Way".

 

[Olddog]

Many times I have seen dogs that under some conditions seemed to have exceptional abilities to scent. However under other conditions seemed to be on the other end of the spectrum. Hounds of all types other than sight hounds make their living with their nose. Very often you can see scenting conditions change with the same dog during the time out with them on the same day. For us in northern OH early spring end of winter were the hardest time of year for scenting over all.

 

[Chez]

My 11 year old lab has an innate ability to back track any scent we cut while walking on lead. It’s so good that when he pulls to the left on lead I look to the right. Off lead hunting he has no trouble flushing grouse or finding cripples

 

[DuckDynasty]

QUOTE="EdA, post: 2288412, member: 22902"]
It is stated that dogs sense of smell is forty (40) times more sensitive than that of humans. Oh to be a dog for a time and smell all those things that they can smell.😳 I read that dogs can differentiate more than 250 different scents.
[/QUOTE]

Imagine all the scents a dog picks up on the way out to a mark! So not just having a good nose, but also the ability to discriminate scent at lightning speed that is an important trait seldom on the list when describing important qualities in a good marking dog. Can be enhanced through training, but suspect there is a genetic component baked in.

 

[Steve Shaver]

QUOTE="EdA, post: 2288412, member: 22902"]
It is stated that dogs sense of smell is forty (40) times more sensitive than that of humans. Oh to be a dog for a time and smell all those things that they can smell.😳 I read that dogs can differentiate more than 250 different scents.

Imagine all the scents a dog picks up on the way out to a mark! So not just having a good nose, but also the ability to discriminate scent at lightning speed that is an important trait seldom on the list when describing important qualities in a good marking dog. Can be enhanced through training, but suspect there is a genetic component baked in.
[/QUOTE]



But when it comes to training that nose can cause problems as well. They gotta have the brains to go along with it.

 

[DuckDynasty]

Agreed and that was the point I was trying to make... not only a good nose to pick up scent, but the ability to instantly process and differentiate it on the fly... I refer it to as scent discrimination.