I opened RT.net this morning thinking to see the reactions and thoughts about the horrific “pro” trainer incident in North Carolina but didn’t see anything. Our community will need to step up and respond to this in a very aggressive manner. We cannot simply stand by and allow individuals to get away with such abhorrent behavior without very serious consequences. ….and, the AkC must act quickly and with as severe as possible measures as can be doled out by that organization. Disgusting occurrence, simply disgusting! I am ashamed that such things can be done by a human, but then again, look what mankind has been capable of in the past. Awful and sad.
North Carolina Criminal
Tom O
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A former employee said on FB that he had recently provided some information and evidence to investigators. There is new evidence and videos, according to the sheriff's department.
From WITN Television:
It was Tuesday night that the sheriff appealed to anyone in the community with firsthand knowledge of abuse to come forward as well as anyone with videos, photos, or eyewitness accounts. Rogers says that videos provided were crucial to the investigation.
Sheriff Rogers says that Neal has been on their radar before this current investigation. Rogers says about eight months ago a complaint surrounding what he says was a different disturbing video came in and was investigated an arrest was made. Rogers says it was later dismissed by the district attorney’s office.
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Good!
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Now the former employee is stepping up? WTF. This could have been prevented? Somebody said this is scary as the uninformed public will think this is what everybody does and could cripple dog training and dog sports. That would be horrible but it only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole batch.
How did somebody not know this guy was an abuser. It was said it is a small close community. If so we need to police our own. Jeez. I am just a gun dog guy. I have done some small and large group training but not much any more. Did somebody turn their head to this behavior? How can they live with themselves.
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How did somebody not know this guy was an abuser. It was said it is a small close community. If so we need to police our own. Jeez. I am just a gun dog guy. I have done some small and large group training but not much any more. Did somebody turn their head to this behavior? How can they live with themselves.
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It has happened several times. There are known abusers still in good standing and running dogs in trials and tests. But no one that has direct knowledge will speak out. Is protecting one bad apple worth destroying the sport?
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There are those who might just reflect on their own abilities.
You won't change the dog's behaviour until and unless you change your own. Doing the same thing over and over .... well you know the rest of that old training maxim. As an aside the reaction in the forum is very different from the last time a similar case was made public.
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So now, I go back to my original post. We all have ju-ju in this. What must we/can we do and what must the AKC do to try and push the public opinion of our sport in the other direction? Nobody wants to interfere in another person’s training of their dog, but when we see a situation where the dog is just too confused or in such a total panic mode to learn anything or understand what the expected response is to get anything out of the training perhaps we have to have the fortitude to step up and take the risk to suggest “hey, maybe it would be best at this point to put ‘em up for the day”. Am I out of order here??
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You are not out of order. There used to be some old saying I cannot remember. Maybe it was an uncle Jerry wisdom. Basically once you loose your temper you are done for the day.
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I believe both of these quotes are attributable to Rex Carr:
"Leave something in it for the dog".
On watching one of his students struggling to communicate with their dog during a blind retrieve- "All you see is the line to the blind, DO something, go to the dog".
I'm willing to bet the person who was arrested for mistreating the dogs in his care never had a single thought along these lines.
"Leave something in it for the dog".
On watching one of his students struggling to communicate with their dog during a blind retrieve- "All you see is the line to the blind, DO something, go to the dog".
I'm willing to bet the person who was arrested for mistreating the dogs in his care never had a single thought along these lines.
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About a week ago an "occasional trainer" mentioned he needed to do a bunch of "force to water" with his dog.
I told him, no, you do not and stop listening to whoever told you otherwise.
I told him, no, you do not and stop listening to whoever told you otherwise.
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Nope. I said something pretty much along the same line on my fb page. If we see poor training and the dog is dealing with the consequences, speak up. And even before training starts... let folks know what will happen if things start to go sideways...respectfully, of course....
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I agree. I have no direct knowledge but I do know of 2 or 3 instances and wish people who do have direct knowledge would speak up. Sometimes it can be hard to prove But I do know of 7 or 8 dogs that have died but there is either no proof or people that do know arent speaking up.
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It seems to me that the local club could put together 5-6 folks with really good dogs and then invite members of the media and law enforcement to come watch the training session. In fact, give the guests a chance to run the dogs. Show them that often times the dog will run with a collar that basically is just a weight because it's not needed. Step them through running a double mark or show them how to handle a dog to a blind. This would not be for attribution. . . just a demo to show them how things should be done and let them understand that this guy is not what we are like.
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Where did you see this?
He should NEVER be allowed to own a dog, nor step on a mat again.
I saw the videos and can tell those that haven’t, that I literally got sick to my stomach.
“Eye for an Eye”
I certainly try to never train MAD!!!
I’ve learned to get through the mess and fix the problem.
I’ve learned that dogs are gonna have bad days, don’t let 1 bad day ruin the process!!!
I saw the videos and can tell those that haven’t, that I literally got sick to my stomach.
“Eye for an Eye”
I certainly try to never train MAD!!!
I’ve learned to get through the mess and fix the problem.
I’ve learned that dogs are gonna have bad days, don’t let 1 bad day ruin the process!!!
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I watched the video, and it is sickening. There is no defense for what I saw.
The thing that worries me is things being taken out of context in a normal (non-abusive) training scenario. I know I have seen dogs react verbally to the extreme on a very low level of correction. I have even seen dogs carry on for a long period of time vocally after the pressure has discontinued. I have seen dogs attack the handler for a low nick on a no-go for a blind. The reaction to the handler just grabbing the collar became very vocal from the dog. I've even had a dog that would vocalize when given a verbal no. Several other examples exist, I am sure. The lack of understanding the context of the situation or how the dog reacts is what worries me in a video being shared online.
The thing that worries me is things being taken out of context in a normal (non-abusive) training scenario. I know I have seen dogs react verbally to the extreme on a very low level of correction. I have even seen dogs carry on for a long period of time vocally after the pressure has discontinued. I have seen dogs attack the handler for a low nick on a no-go for a blind. The reaction to the handler just grabbing the collar became very vocal from the dog. I've even had a dog that would vocalize when given a verbal no. Several other examples exist, I am sure. The lack of understanding the context of the situation or how the dog reacts is what worries me in a video being shared online.
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If you’ve been in this sport for any amount of time at all you’ve seen things that the general public would deem abusive. You’ve seen trainers cross the line either with the collar or physically.
I myself am ashamed that I haven’t spoken up at times when trainers have crossed the line. What kinda irks me is all the people coming out of the woodwork to condemn this guy (which he should be) but look the other way when they see it in person.
There will be more and more videos like these coming to light with a camera in every pocket.
I myself am ashamed that I haven’t spoken up at times when trainers have crossed the line. What kinda irks me is all the people coming out of the woodwork to condemn this guy (which he should be) but look the other way when they see it in person.
There will be more and more videos like these coming to light with a camera in every pocket.
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