[HuntinDawg]

OK, here goes. I am an amateur trainer who has basically run out of time to train due to family and work issues, so I did something I've never done and I sent my dog to a pro. This will not be a long term arrangement because I cannot justify the cost and because our dog belongs at home with us (try telling my daughter otherwise).

He has only been w/ the pro for 1 month and he passed his first Senior test last weekend (I handled him). He is signed up for 3 more Senior tests in the next few weeks. I talked to my pro yesterday and he said that my dog is doing so well that he thinks that HE (not I) could get a Master pass on him at the end of this month (where he is already signed up for Senior). He said we could "double stake" him (I didn't know you could do that) and I could handle him in Senior and the pro could handle him in Master. He said he isn't ready to pass Master with me as his handler since I am not training him regularly. He is NOT trying to pressure me into doing this at all.

To summarize: I never thought I would send a dog to a pro, but I did. I never thought I would have the pro handle my dog in a test, but I am now considering it. So, should I just wait and handle him in all of his tests or should I let the pro handle him in Master?

 

[Swampcollie]

It depends upon the dog.

Many dogs get higher and higher each time they're brought to the line. Bring them to the too many times over too short of a period and you could create some control issues. I would pick one test level and leave it at that.

 

[Sean H]

Personally I would wait and handle him myself. You will enjoy it more.

 

[Karen McCullah]

Sounds like we're in the same boat....got a derby dog that I sent to a "new" pro for basics because I was working ALOT, too many hours and no time for everyday training. It was rough sending one of my "kids" out, but I had to or he'd never run.
That being said, he's now on to another local pro to finish (water too cold for swimby with the first guy) and I'm anxious to get him back. I have pondered the question IF he were ready to run and I couldn't, would I want the pro to run him???
My answer is probably not. It was difficult enough to send him out, because the joy in training is seeing my pups do something I taught or we learned together. Now I'm missing out on that. The only thing left is to run him and I'm not about to let anyone else have that fun! (OK, and alot of nerves from me, but that's part of the fun too!)
My first dog was on autopilot...his raw talent was awesome and he'd look at me like I was an idiot, but hey, we got through together. He did well in spite of me! So if your handling needs improvement, it's YOUR dog and you'll get better together I guess.
Just don't be offended when you get the eyeroll from your dog!
=0)

 

[Miriam Wade]

This is just me, but if I were going to be at a test anyway running my dog I would want to run him in both stakes. If you feel you don't have enough experience to run Master than take him up on his offer I suppose, but it sounds as though your dog works well for you.

I sent my dog off for basics at 16 months (yea yea a lot later than most) & I never thought I'd use a pro either. He went back for a winter tune up that was cut short or he would have run his first Q too. But my goal was always to be the one to continue his training and run him because I like doing both.

How much do you enjoy running your dog? If you have good communication with the pro he shouldn't be offended if you want to run him.

It's great that he's ready for Master. Good luck in both stakes!

M

 

[HuntinDawg]

It depends upon the dog.

Many dogs get higher and higher each time they're brought to the line. Bring them to the too many times over too short of a period and you could create some control issues. I would pick one test level and leave it at that.

That is a good point and one I had considered. My dog is pretty darn steady and the pro isn't worried about that.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[HuntinDawg]

Personally I would wait and handle him myself. You will enjoy it more.

That is what I would prefer to do, but he will likely get no more than 3-4 months of pro training and I'm wondering if I can get him back to the Master level this fall. That is the dilemna.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[HuntinDawg]

Wiredlabz, thanks for the input.

 

[HuntinDawg]

If you feel you don't have enough experience to run Master than take him up on his offer I suppose, but it sounds as though your dog works well for you.

I've never handled a dog in a Master test.

How much do you enjoy running your dog?

Quite a bit...it is about all I've got left since I am not training him myself anymore. BTW, my pro encourages me to come train, but he is a long drive from me, so I've only trained with him twice in the month he has had my dog.

If you have good communication with the pro he shouldn't be offended if you want to run him.

He would not be offended, but he doesn't think my dog is ready to run master with ME. He is working the dog daily and I guess they are clicking pretty well and obviously has much more experience than I do and he thinks he could get a master pass with him, but my dog is not ready to just step up there and smack a master test yet.

It's great that he's ready for Master. Good luck in both stakes!

M

Thanks and best of luck to you too.

 

[Kris Hunt]

IMNSHO

If you want to run your dog and earn the accolades, then YOU should run your dog. If you are only after getting the MH title for bragging rights, then have the Pro run the dog.

Good Luck

Kris

 

[Sean H]

That is what I would prefer to do, but he will likely get no more than 3-4 months of pro training and I'm wondering if I can get him back to the Master level this fall. That is the dilemna.

Thank you for the reply.

I'm pretty green at this stuff, but once he's ready for master I doubt that he would lose that much in 3-4 months. Will you still not be able to work him much yourself once you get him back? Maybe send him back to the trainer for a tune up before the fall HTs?

 

[blind ambition]

Everyone focuses on the dog's development which is natural, we are (according to the name of this forum) training retrievers after all not handlers. But you know, it's a big step up to running in Masters for handlers and if you've never run before you may learn a whole lot watching (then de-briefing) your pro run the test.

I can tell you from my own experience that I made many fewer mistakes and did more to help my dog run a test after watching and reading Dave Rorem's "Art and Science of Retriever Handling" than I did before. I'd heartily recommend this DVD to any new handler. Good luck and have fun.

 

[Grasshopper]

If it were my dog, and I was trying to get the most training and experience for him, and there were time constraints on the training, I would choose to let the pro run him in Master. I would also choose to not run him in Senior unless the pro told me that it would add something to the dogs experience that weekend. I would not want to confuse my green dog during a competition by expecting him to respond to 2 different handlers.

Of course, it's more rewarding to do the training and handling yourself, but once you've decided to get professional assistance, I say make the most of the time your dog has with the professional.

JMHO

 

[Russ]

I second what Kris said. It is an individual decision based on your personal goals.

 

[HuntinDawg]

IMNSHO

If you want to run your dog and earn the accolades, then YOU should run your dog. If you are only after getting the MH title for bragging rights, then have the Pro run the dog.

Good Luck

Kris

Kris, that is an astute comment. After the second series of senior last weekend, my pro said "congratulations" because we knew that he had passed and with relative ease. I smiled and said "for what, I didn't do anything" because he has been training the dog and it is truly a weird feeling for me not to be only my dog's handler and not his trainer (I haven't adjusted to that yet). His response was "well, I can't take a dog that hasn't had any training and pass a senior test in one month," and that is true, but it is still weird. So that brings me to who I'm doing this for. Am I wanting to achieve the titles for me or for my dog? If I just want my dog to accomplish the most he can and it really isn't about me at all then I should just let the pro run him...although it couldn't be as much fun or exciting to watch him do it. I will say this: My first dog (who never had a day of pro training) never reached his HRCH or MH because of my limitations, not his, and it bothered me that he never earned those titles because he was certainly talented enough to do so in the right hands. He deserved the chance to prove himself worthy of a HRCH & MH even if I wasn't up to the task of getting him there. I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

 

[HuntinDawg]

I'm pretty green at this stuff, but once he's ready for master I doubt that he would lose that much in 3-4 months. Will you still not be able to work him much yourself once you get him back? Maybe send him back to the trainer for a tune up before the fall HTs?

That is a good question. He is being trained 5 - 6 days per week now, plus the tests. Even before my present time constraints, I have never been able to train my dog (in the field) for more than 1-2 days per week. Puppy stuff and a lot of the drills that can be done closer to home were different and I was able to come close to daily training on that stuff.

I considered having him tune him up for the fall H/T season. That will probably be necessary if I am going to handle him personally all the way through a Master title.

I want to thank everyone for their comments. All of this is good food for thought, and I appreciate hearing the various perspectives.

 

[tmfrt]

He deserved the chance to prove himself worthy of a HRCH & MH even if I wasn't up to the task of getting him there. I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

Remember, the dog doesn't know whether he's a master hunter or a junior hunter. As long as he enjoys what he's doing, that's all you need to worry about as far as the dog goes. The way I see it, there is no wrong answer, only what's important to YOU. Is it more important for you to know that you handled your dog to highest level YOU were able to get him to, or is it more important to get him to the highest level HE can get to, even if it means having the pro do it.

 

[HuntinDawg]

Everyone focuses on the dog's development which is natural, we are (according to the name of this forum) training retrievers after all not handlers. But you know, it's a big step up to running in Masters for handlers and if you've never run before you may learn a whole lot watching (then de-briefing) your pro run the test.

I can tell you from my own experience that I made many fewer mistakes and did more to help my dog run a test after watching and reading Dave Rorem's "Art and Science of Retriever Handling" than I did before. I'd heartily recommend this DVD to any new handler. Good luck and have fun.

Honestly, I do not believe that I am too "green" to handle a dog in master although I have never done it. I have watched several and it seems to me that it is a much bigger step up for the dog than it is for the handler.

I do have Dave Rorem's DVD...maybe I need to watch it again.

Thank you for the input.

 

[DMA]

Personally I would wait and handle him myself. You will enjoy it more.

I agree, I had a pro handle my first dog in Masters before he retired. My second dog went to a FT pro for the break out but he always had me run her myself in derby, even when she was on his truck. I loved it. Either is up to you, but man I had a blast running my own dog

 

[Joe Dutro]

There are two types of dogs --ones that break and ones that haven't broke yet.