[2tall]

The pet dog training thread got me thinking about this and I did not want to hijack.
In my search for a really professional obedience trainer, I have run across the Association of Pet Dog Trainers several times. I went to their website, APDT.com, but there were no list of "acredited" or "licensed" trainers. Are they in fact pros, or is it one of those networking orgs where people just get together to market their services?

Is there a place for obedience trainers similar to PRTA?

 

[MBH]

This group is a joke. They have things like pet psychics come to their conventions and they are big into the "all positive" teaching style. My obedience instructor--who has OTCH dogs--doesn't associate with this group. IACP is a reputable group like the Retriever Pro group.

 

[runnindawgz]

I think that A CPDT is the closest thing you can get to being certified. Unlike in the UK - there is no accredited college degree in canine study for trainers. A PHD in Psychology and animal behavior can lend itself to being a certified behaviorist (much different than a trainer).

The "POSITIVE RE-ENFORCEMENT" motto and era of trainers has caused an influx of people who think they know what they are doing. I call it loly pop and butterfly dog training. And its not reality.

Don't get me wrong - I like the use of clickers and treats etc ...... try to teach a jack Russell to take a bow, spin, hit a target, or jump through your legs with a slip chain and heeling stick - good luck.

Positive re-enforcement works but needs to be balanced with a bit of instruction that sometimes requires positive punishment. I think that being overly PC, the main stream certifications organizations FREAK about any use of force ... to me its just silly.

As I mentioned in my PM - I feel a trainer is only as good as his/her dogs can demonstrate. I am always proud to show clients my dogs and although the illiteracy factor can be frustrating at times - it is nice to be able to teach people how to balance praise and correction, how to read body language, and how to get dogs to ENJOY their work - whatever it may be.

There are lots of organizations which offer "certifications" Some have more detailed programs than others. ABC, NADOI, CPDT, CASI, IAABC are just a few I am familiar with but I am sure there are more.

In the end (IMHO) its the product of a trainer's accomplishments in combination with their training techniques and philosophies that prove his or her worth. GO WATCH whoever you may be interested in. If a trainer does not allow a gallery at his/her classes or some select private session - that says something to me.

How about you just leave Indy with me for two months LOLOLLOL Just kidding - I think you are smart to do your homework and I belive that since you are so dedicated you SHOULD seek the best person to help you train your own dog! Good Luck Carol!

 

[cakaiser]

Connie Cleveland lives in SC, she runs field trials too.

 

[2tall]

Dan, I would be be very confidant in putting him with you for two weeks, and if my search is totaly futile, may end up having to do just that. The problem is, no fix is going to work if I don't learn myself. I need to develope some leadership skills and how to apply them. I can't even find someone to go watch that is less than an hour and a half away.

What do you all think of the "trainer" charging $65 for a "private" evaluation hour, I have not seen her work with any dogs, her own or others.

 

[TheShadow]

do not ever mention the word "e-collar" to any of these people. They will snap. I was told a story of a man who brought his german shorthair 7mo old to a "positive only" training class. He wanted his pup to get use to wearing an e-collar. Well he first wanted to get the basic OB down (which he was having trouble with as it was his first dog) and this woman trainer took the collar off and put it in an outside dumpster. Said electric shock collars should be outlawed and banned in the USA. The guy got so mad she refunded his money and asked him to never come back. I wish I knew who this trainer was.

clicker training isn't as easy as it sounds. i can tell you the majority of people who use this training turn it into bribe training.

don't get me wrong clicker training works but it has to be done right. and to some of these trainers who feel you can never ever use any type of aversive is just plain ol in fantasy land.

 

[runnindawgz]

My evaluations are free. It can take 15 minutes or two hours - if I want the business I have to see the dog and person, sell myself, and get a feel for what I am "getting into" so, its free.

In a consult session Its just $25 thats when we talk more in depth - I'll work the dog a bit and/or have the owner work the dog ~ and I give some written homeowrk assignments and we set some reasonable goals together.

Just to SEE and observe the handler/dog relationship/ to assess the issues = FREE.

 

[runnindawgz]

do not ever mention the word "e-collar" to any of these people. They will snap. I was told a story of a man who brought his german shorthair 7mo old to a "positive only" training class. He wanted his pup to get use to wearing an e-collar. Well he first wanted to get the basic OB down (which he was having trouble with as it was his first dog) and this woman trainer took the collar off and put it in an outside dumpster. Said electric shock collars should be outlawed and banned in the USA. The guy got so mad she refunded his money and asked him to never come back. I wish I knew who this trainer was.

clicker training isn't as easy as it sounds. i can tell you the majority of people who use this training turn it into bribe training.

don't get me wrong clicker training works but it has to be done right. and to some of these trainers who feel you can never ever use any type of aversive is just plain ol in fantasy land.

:lol:
I attended a seminar called "SPLASH CAMP" in PA a few years ago. And I thought I was a positive trainer - WOW ~ I was shunned from day 1 when we did intros and I told them I ran hunt tests. when they asked if I used an e - collar I said yes - thinking nothing of it - WELL! lets put it this way - my dog was the best behaved there and we still left a day early for a "family emergency" I was made to feel like such an outcast.

Also - regarding clikcer training I agree. I teach one 4 week class called FIDO FUN AND FOCUS where we use the clicker. The whole 4 weeks no one is allowed to speak to their dogs and the results are amazing. If I tried this during regular obedeince classes I'd have a million confused people and a million dogs with bellied full of hot dogs!

One of these days I want to put a video of my Parson Russell on my web site with his clicker taught repetior of tricks ... but - he's a Parson so he's got his bottom smacked a few times in his life too! LOL Dont tell the splash camp folks!

 

[Grasshopper]

I checked out infodog.com (like entry express but for obed., conf., agility) and the Savannah Dog Training Club

http://www.savannahdogtrainingclub.org/

is having an obedience competition the end of the month. Maybe you could meet someone there, or get some suggestions for a local trainer. Good luck!!

 

[2tall]

One step ahead of ya Grasshoppah Its already on my calendar and I have spoken to 2 members of that group and they sound great. But THOSE are the ones that are an hour and a half away. That still may be the way to go since it is now to hot to go do our field training in Bowman.

 

[D Osborn]

65 for an eval is fair, chances are if the trainer is good she/he will end up woking with you during that hour.
There are several people in Savannah, and there are people who travel to train once a month. I am a true believer in Boot camp-I will send a young dog off for a week, and then whoever has him/her will work with me if it is one of mine, or my friends if not mine-I find if it is taught well the first time it only takes a reminder to get the dog on the same page again. Sometimes I just don't have the time or patience.
The dog show in Savannah is fine, but not worth the trip/gas to just go watch. And it is hard to get an idea of how someone trains in those situations.
Carol, it is worth it to travel, and get it done correctly the first time. Well worth the time and money. Make sure they have air conditioning.

 

[TheShadow]

some of my buddies call these positive only trainers "Jehovah Dog Trainers". The phrase has caught on in the field/hunt circles. Some of the handlers have had face to face confrontations with these Jehovah trainers. They are soooooo against people that hunt, feel we have grocery stores, and get on that wagon and then go on about how choke chains, prong collars, heeling sticks, shock collars are barbaric and should be banned. Anyone who uses such things should be arrested?!

Only two times have I had someone comment on my lab wearing an e-collar in public. And it just makes me mad that they would just "butt in" and insult me like that. One girl said that she'd "rescue my dog" if she found out where I lived. She was a vegan and i was a tad concerned because it seemed like she was following me...

i mean i respect all types of training as long as its fair. you like postive only that is fine. i'm not one to start criticizing their methods and begin to preach or PUSH them into thinking that my way is the only way. Everyone can agree to disagree and be respectful. But sometimes I feel these positive only trainers take it too far.

One lady demanded I put the collar on my neck and shock myself on the highest setting. When I wouldn't do it she called me a coward. I don't have to do anything or prove anything to anyone. I just ignored her.

Has anyone else come in contact with an e-collar hater?

more on point there are so many trainers out there and its tough to pick which one to go with. Certifications don't really mean much to me. I want to see the bread in the pudding... maybe some dogs the trainer has trained. Sit in on a session, etc...

 

[HuntinDawg]

One girl said that she'd "rescue my dog" if she found out where I lived. She was a vegan and i was a tad concerned because it seemed like she was following me...

I would have had a hard time not telling her that she is talking about dog theft and in Georgia it is legal to use deadly force to protect your property so she had better be joking.

 

[rainsmom]

I'm one of those positive trainers, but I'm not obnoxious about it. (At least I hope I'm not.) I get equally tired of the "born again" type of positive trainer. I think it's rude, disrespectful, and counter-productive to go around calling all e-collar trainers or all traditional trainers "evil" and "cruel." I know too damn many trainers -- traditional, positive, and lots of flavors in between -- that are good at what they do. I also know a fair number of all kinds who aren't.

I think that when it comes to something a person is passionate about (from training methods to politics to sports), there are two types of people. There are "advocates" who put their energy into furthering the good stuff they believe in, and there are "activists" who put their energy into fighting against the bad stuff they don't believe in. I think the former is, in the end, going to result in a lot more change (and a hell of a lot more respect, even between people who disagree) than the latter. The latter tends to degrade into name calling and pissing matches and rude and obnoxious behavior.

<grin> By the way, if you can't get sit in a session, you probably shouldn't be training a dog. Back when I taught classes, my first class met without dogs. I did, however, pick one student and ask that she/he bring their dog for a demo. I turned the dog loose in the room while I lectured. I didn't talk to the dog or make eye contact, and within minutes it was throwing sits at me. Toooo easy.

 

[rainsmom]

Ugh, I'm sorry. I obviously can't read. I just looked back above, and the poster said "sit in on a session" not "sit in one session."

I apologize!!

Maybe I'd better dig out that Hooked on Phonics thing again....

 

[2tall]

I am beginning to wonder. I spoke to the lady that I am supposed to have "evaluate" our needs and she started in about "holistic calming herbs". Somehow I think Indy is going to blow her mind

At any rate we are going to take the puppy to a petco pup class just for the socialization opportunity, and I will get to see what she can do.

 

[cakaiser]

I am beginning to wonder. I spoke to the lady that I am supposed to have "evaluate" our needs and she started in about "holistic calming herbs". Somehow I think Indy is going to blow her mind

LOL. I can just picture it, I would love to see that one! Careful about Parvo with Scout, I am really paranoid about it around here.

 

[jcasey]

Several AKC obedience clubs offer obedience classes in our area. There are several schools (not clubs) that offer puppy to beginner obedience and novice polish classes. One school in particular uses a good balance of praise and correction (on the older dogs) and teaches beginner dogs good habits like not charging out the door, meet and greet, loose leash walking, settling down and how to behave nice around a bunch of dogs.

I would ask around my dog friends and try to find a club/school like this.

Good luck!

 

[mostlygold]

I train and run my dogs in field, obedience and agility. I had a very solid grounding in obedience training many years ago from a good trainer. I enjoy learning new training techniques and just adopt what seems to work for me. I like clicker training for teaching new behaviors and tricks. It works VERY well for most agility training as the timing is perfect to let the dog know when he/she is correct (much like the timing of an ecollar correction in the field). I use a combination of clicker, positive and correction for obedience and have used some correction in agility for such things as ring bolting, aka avoidance.

In both the obedience world and agility world I have come across many people who are purely positive trainers, very loudly decrying the use of choke or pinch collars, ecollars, force fetch or any type of compulsive training. I also see a lot of dogs with neuroses and very bad behavioral issues due to the lack of structure in their training. When people start in on me about using an e-collar, I generally tell them they are entitled to their opinion, but as it is not backed up by any facts or knowledge, I will not pay them any heed. Also for purely positive trainers, I just compare my dog's behavior to theirs.

 

[runnindawgz]

Nicely put Mostly gold! Every word of it.