In Lardy's TRT video he mentions that he does not ever really go back to the TT drill b/c he does not want to get the dog used to returning to the same spot. My question then is this, do you return to the pattern blind field? If your dog is not popping, has no known issues, but does need work on holding and keeping a line would it ever be appropriate to go back to pattern blinds during the dogs transition/advanced training? I feel like they are good confidence builders and I just want to see what everyone's thoughts are. So how many people actually use pattern blinds after they have moved on to cold water and land blinds? Thanks.
Pattern Blinds
blakegober
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I agree with your list of uses for pattern blinds for developing dogs just learning about blinds. I use them a lot ... more than some people recommend. While some have said they only do them for 3 or 4 days, I might spend 3, maybe 4 weeks on them.
I initially set up 3 in a field and teach them thoroughly. Then I will set up 3 more in a different field and work there a few days ... then move on to another field and repeat, increasing difficulty a little. Before I'm done I will go out the night before and plant one in each of several fields and go run them in the morning, driving from one spot to the next adding various diversions (marks, etc).
I realize this is one of the advantages of having only 2 or 3 dogs. It would be pretty time consuming with a whole truckload.
What I don't agree with however, is returning to pattern blinds AFTER I have accomplished their purpose. Hitting a snag in cold blind progress (usually described as "confidence problems"), the solution is not to regress to pattern blinds, IMO. The dog should already have plenty of confidence running pattern blinds. He needs help building confidence with cold blinds (a totally different critter) and sometimes that takes time.
Not that I think it will necessarily do any damage. It is just an inefficient use of time.
JMHO
JS
[/QUOTE]What I don't agree with however, is returning to pattern blinds AFTER I have accomplished their purpose. Hitting a snag in cold blind progress (usually described as "confidence problems"), the solution is not to regress to pattern blinds, IMO. The dog should already have plenty of confidence running pattern blinds. He needs help building confidence with cold blinds (a totally different critter) and sometimes that takes time.
Not that I think it will necessarily do any damage. It is just an inefficient use of time UnQuote)
I would tend to agree with that also
But I don't run all that many cold blinds or do many pattern blinds once the transitional work is done.
I don't believe you need to run cold blinds to teach cold blinds.
Pete
Not that I think it will necessarily do any damage. It is just an inefficient use of time UnQuote)
I would tend to agree with that also
But I don't run all that many cold blinds or do many pattern blinds once the transitional work is done.
I don't believe you need to run cold blinds to teach cold blinds.
Pete
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5,248 Posts
Angie and Evan
Drills
Short drills (difficult) which make up any component of any blind.
The drills are incredably dificult and can be viewed as a pattern blind (because they are done often) except the bumper is tough to get the right way. Standards must be exceptionally high.
Water and land makes no difference.
I am a strong believer in drills even stupid little drills.
Although a new bumper added to a drill can be considered a cold blind for that one time only not the same as running a big cold blind day after day. Not even close.. Dogs almost always come to the line locked and loaded and are easy to move degree or so at a time. ,,,,however the dog doesn't know its a cold blind. But it has been taught everything need and all the components and proper communication that is required for a cold blind.
Also I do run cold blinds but not really that many.
Hey but I donate most of my proceeds to the clubs so just remember where this is comming from:razz::razz:
Maby I should run more cold blinds:razz:
Pete
Drills
Short drills (difficult) which make up any component of any blind.
The drills are incredably dificult and can be viewed as a pattern blind (because they are done often) except the bumper is tough to get the right way. Standards must be exceptionally high.
Water and land makes no difference.
I am a strong believer in drills even stupid little drills.
Although a new bumper added to a drill can be considered a cold blind for that one time only not the same as running a big cold blind day after day. Not even close.. Dogs almost always come to the line locked and loaded and are easy to move degree or so at a time. ,,,,however the dog doesn't know its a cold blind. But it has been taught everything need and all the components and proper communication that is required for a cold blind.
Also I do run cold blinds but not really that many.
Hey but I donate most of my proceeds to the clubs so just remember where this is comming from:razz::razz:
Maby I should run more cold blinds:razz:
Pete
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5,248 Posts
Evan
I tend to disagree and I believe in other ways which are not contradicting
does carry merrit.
In young dogs handling starts off with teaching a dog to change direction
As the training evolves it becomes a form of communication.,,,not merly left or right angles but how much or what factor to pursue.,,,,,,,does the dog parallel the shore line or angle up on it. Thats communication which is developed in my mind not a "lucky cast".
An over cast off a point doesn't nessessarily mean get off the point and scallop back. It can mean WHAT THE #$%^ ARE YOU DOING THERE,,get your arse out of there. Pycologically they totally different
Communication not casting.
These behaviors are taught using drills. and they are checked using cold blinds
Now I do run some cold blinds ,,,,but probably less than most people. But I also use them to test where I am at. And if a problem arises I use an appropriate drill to rectify it.
When a dog looks out on a blind many of them are checking out the factors and are already indicating weather they will attack them or avoid them. Especially the up close ones So I think they should be taught how to negotiate them. I use drills for that.
But yes they will have to do it cold espescially at a test. But in there mind its a drill . By this ,,over that,through this.
So the proper cast will communicate the proper response which for a seasoned dog is more about the communication where to go not so much the cast itself.
If a dog is a little fat as he is swimming down a shore line at 2 or 3 hundred yards and you cast him into the shore line,,,,,,does he move closer to the shore line or does he angle up on it.
I never teach that with cold blinds. They better do it up close before you can ask them to do it at a long distance away.
They better be doing that with drills real well before I do it at 300 yards.
I have a dog here that won an open at 38 months and had probably run a small hand full of cold blinds prior to that.
So I think that method or approach is legitimate if practiced the right way. ,,,,, . As long as training principles are not broken and the phycological
conditioning that takes place is not contradicted by other methods taught in early stages of deveopment.,,,,,then I think your good to go.
Pete
I tend to disagree and I believe in other ways which are not contradicting
does carry merrit.
In young dogs handling starts off with teaching a dog to change direction
As the training evolves it becomes a form of communication.,,,not merly left or right angles but how much or what factor to pursue.,,,,,,,does the dog parallel the shore line or angle up on it. Thats communication which is developed in my mind not a "lucky cast".
An over cast off a point doesn't nessessarily mean get off the point and scallop back. It can mean WHAT THE #$%^ ARE YOU DOING THERE,,get your arse out of there. Pycologically they totally different
Communication not casting.
These behaviors are taught using drills. and they are checked using cold blinds
Now I do run some cold blinds ,,,,but probably less than most people. But I also use them to test where I am at. And if a problem arises I use an appropriate drill to rectify it.
When a dog looks out on a blind many of them are checking out the factors and are already indicating weather they will attack them or avoid them. Especially the up close ones So I think they should be taught how to negotiate them. I use drills for that.
But yes they will have to do it cold espescially at a test. But in there mind its a drill . By this ,,over that,through this.
So the proper cast will communicate the proper response which for a seasoned dog is more about the communication where to go not so much the cast itself.
If a dog is a little fat as he is swimming down a shore line at 2 or 3 hundred yards and you cast him into the shore line,,,,,,does he move closer to the shore line or does he angle up on it.
I never teach that with cold blinds. They better do it up close before you can ask them to do it at a long distance away.
They better be doing that with drills real well before I do it at 300 yards.
I have a dog here that won an open at 38 months and had probably run a small hand full of cold blinds prior to that.
So I think that method or approach is legitimate if practiced the right way. ,,,,, . As long as training principles are not broken and the phycological
conditioning that takes place is not contradicted by other methods taught in early stages of deveopment.,,,,,then I think your good to go.
Pete
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5,856 Posts
I understand where your coming from Pete, but I'm not convinced schooling blinds continuously is going to get you a good performer on cold blinds in the field. Dogs have to be well versed at transfering the skills they've learned into the "real world".
You can learn about building skyscrapers all day in school, but until you've built a bunch of them, you don't know how to really build one.
If you say you have a open win on a dog at 30 some months that's great!!! When you have 10 dogs with open wins at that age, then I'll want to know more.
But hey,,,, if you think it works for you that's all that counts. ;-)
Angie
You can learn about building skyscrapers all day in school, but until you've built a bunch of them, you don't know how to really build one.
If you say you have a open win on a dog at 30 some months that's great!!! When you have 10 dogs with open wins at that age, then I'll want to know more.
But hey,,,, if you think it works for you that's all that counts. ;-)
Angie
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