[Gun_Dog2002]

Titles are only important to the individual. I've seen FC's that frankly I wouldn't want any part of and JH dogs that i'd like to see paired with the right partner for a pup.

/Paul

 

[cakaiser]

Titles are only important to the individual. I've seen FC's that frankly I wouldn't want any part of and JH dogs that i'd like to see paired with the right partner for a pup.

/Paul

Someone speaks the truth here. Buyer beware, all FC's not created equal.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

To all on the board,

I was at a Hunt Test Saturday (6-30) I was approached by a pro trainer couple, who I highly respect, pointing out someone was posting some demeaning and extremely rude comments about those who run hunt tests. There was a "mistaken identity" and the couple assumed the person who was quoted was writing the posts. This is not the case. The posts have been edited since that time. The person quoted(old time field trialer) does not have any intention of being associated with the posters' opinions. All of his current clients are running in Hunt Tests, with a limited few dogs currently running successfully in derby's.

The poster has little experience training dogs and has run in his first derby this season. The poster has been to maybe two hunts in his life and never entered his dog in a hunt test nor, has he ever run in a hunt test and has no personal knowledge of the subject.

The poster is in my training group. (we'll see for how long)

I just wanted to make certain of the people in Washington who know who this person is are not confused by the stupidity in any way.

Respectfully,

 

[Gun_Dog2002]

To all on the board,

I was at a Hunt Test Saturday (6-30) I was approached by a pro trainer couple, who I highly respect, pointing out someone was posting some demeaning and extremely rude comments about those who run hunt tests. There was a "mistaken identity" and the couple assumed the person who was quoted was writing the posts. This is not the case. The posts have been edited since that time. The person quoted(old time field trialer) does not have any intention of being associated with the posters' opinions. All of his current clients are running in Hunt Tests, with a limited few dogs currently running successfully in derby's.

The poster has little experience training dogs and has run in his first derby this season. The poster has been to maybe two hunts in his life and never entered his dog in a hunt test nor, has he ever run in a hunt test and has no personal knowledge of the subject.

The poster is in my training group. (we'll see for how long)

I just wanted to make certain of the people in Washington who know who this person is are not confused by the stupidity in any way.

Respectfully,

I'll refrain from Washingtonian jokes say hi for me...

/Paul

 

[Trykon]

In my original post i stated that FT dogs don't have as much suction on blinds. I'm not saying that they have no suction on blind becuase they do. I'm just saying that a HT dog running Master must deal with more suction on most blinds than a FT dog.

Example: I have run many master test to where the line to the blind was 5 ft behind a flier station that the dog just picked up a flier from. Another example Throw a mark leave it laying just off line and pick up the blind. Come back and throw the other 2 or 3 marks for the dog to pick up.

Yes in master there are alot of the same concepts as there are in AA stakes just at a shorter distance. You will still see your inline marks, wipe out birds, and extremely tight marks in a master test. You will also see the same concept water marks in a master test.

I do believe that your GOOD master dogs can run in any Q out there if given the short period of time it would take to stretch them out on the marks.

My point is that just becuase a dog runs FT's and not HT's doesn't mean that he/she is a better dog. I'm sure there are many dogs out there that just run HT that if the owner had choosen to pursue FT the dog would have done well there too.

Another example of how a good master dog can run Q's and compete. I have personally trained with 3 dogs that are HT dogs that have run and done well in Q's. One has only run 2 Q's. He placed 3rd in the first and won the second. Another dog placed 2nd in 2 of them. The other has placed in 3 Q's. Now they are all very consistent master dogs that have done very well in Q's. The dog that won a Q is now running Opens and has earned a 4th place in an open.

Both FT and HT dogs are great dogs in their own game. Don't put down one or the other for lack of understanding.

 

[Jacob Hawkes]

Titles are only important to the individual. I've seen FC's that frankly I wouldn't want any part of and JH dogs that i'd like to see paired with the right partner for a pup.

/Paul

I'll agree with you about there might be a few FCs that you wouldn't want any part of but only because of possible health issues. The b#tch would have to have atleast a MH title with a FC AFC male for me to consider and have a very strong pedigree @ that on each parent. I'm just telling you what I'd do. To each their own. Not knocking your thought process.

 

[Trykon]

Champ, I'm no fool and i've been around both the FT and HT dogs more than you know. I know that there is suction on FT blinds i'm not that stupid however thare is more suction on a good master blind than your open blinds. Only difference is distance! This is the exact reason why the last FT a good friend (Who is a very well known pro trainer for HT dogs) went to everyone there stated that you had better beat his dogs on the marks becuase you can't beat him on the blinds.

 

[Trykon]

I'm not saying a master dog is better than a FC dog. That's far from true... It takes a very special animal to win an open. I'm just comparing a MH to a QAA dog.

 

[rboudet]

In my original post i stated that FT dogs don't have as much suction on blinds. I'm not saying that they have no suction on blind becuase they do. I'm just saying that a HT dog running Master must deal with more suction on most blinds than a FT dog.

Example: I have run many master test to where the line to the blind was 5 ft behind a flier station that the dog just picked up a flier from. Another example Throw a mark leave it laying just off line and pick up the blind. Come back and throw the other 2 or 3 marks for the dog to pick up.

Just add about 200-300 yards and its an often used field trial setup. Its a breeze keeping them off a poison bird and on line at 50 yards try 300.

 

[Trykon]

I personally train on blinds that distance every day. For the very reason you just stated. Most people that have very good master dogs train to a Q level. I run marks any distance from 10-500 yards with my dog and blinds vary from 100 to 500 yards with suction, for the exact reason you just stated. If your dog can mark birds at 400 and 500 yards he can mark birds at 100 and if your dog can cast off of suction at 400 yards he can for sure cast off of it at 100. I'm just trying to say that no one should knock a HT dog for not being a FT dog. A MH is a good dog.

 

[cakaiser]

. Only difference is distance!

And what a difference that is!

 

[Brandoned]

I'm not saying a master dog is better than a FC dog. That's far from true... It takes a very special animal to win an open. I'm just comparing a MH to a QAA dog.

I think you should run some Q's then, since you have the HT's down so well!

 

[Gun_Dog2002]

I'll agree with you about there might be a few FCs that you wouldn't want any part of but only because of possible health issues. The b#tch would have to have atleast a MH title with a FC AFC male for me to consider and have a very strong pedigree @ that on each parent. I'm just telling you what I'd do. To each their own. Not knocking your thought process.

I don't totally agree. Sorry. There are FC's out there with undesirable traits/habits and who pass those on to their offspring. Health is certainly important, but I don't want to train everyday on the same genetic trait, i'd rather train for skills. Titles are part of the equation certainly but I want to see and understand more about the dog than just his title. I think too many people are quick to jump on the "he's titled" bandwagon. Look at each of the NFC/NAFC that suddenly start getting bred all over the place. People think because they bought out of a NFC/NAFC that all will be good, the dog will be a major contender and then reality sits in. A very popular dog right now has a bunch of puppies out there that bark/howl/screem in the holding blinds and on the line, yet are phenomenal marking machines. Do I want to have to deal with that behavior every time I train? Personally no.

/Paul

 

[Trykon]

I'll be running Q's late this fall.

 

[Trykon]

My original post which has been twisted on ways it was not ment to be twisted states that he should not down grade a MH dog. A MH dog is a great dog that is very trainable. Don't down grade a persons dog becuase of your beliefs. Take a look at how many FC and AFC there are out there that came out of MH dogs. A WHOLE BUNCH OF THEM!

 

[cakaiser]

. I'm just comparing a MH to a QAA dog.

This is what people were posting about.

 

[Brandoned]

I'll be running Q's late this fall.

Clark,

So you have never ran a Q? So how do you no Master's are equal to Q's?

 

[cakaiser]

One other point, Master is a finished level, many Qual dogs are quite young, and still learning. Apples and oranges.

 

[Trykon]

I never said they are equal to Q's. That never came out of my mouth. I said the concepts are the same. I stated that a good master dog can with a little time of streching him/her out can run in Q's. Never stated that they were equal.

Have I run in a Q yet? No i have not. But i have worked for a pro that runs both HT and runs Q's and has done very well in the Q's. So i have seen the difference in training. Main difference is distance. You train on the same concepts for master as you would for a Q just a shorter distance for master.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

I'll refrain from Washingtonian jokes say hi for me...

/Paul

10-4

Paul Gilmore

More people need to sign their names to their posts. Keeps a higher level of accountability, professionalism and CLASS!