[Guest]

I don't know who said Purina wasn't changing the ingredients or calories of these 3 formulas, but here's a link to ingredients lists and analysis of the new formulas: http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q15/kelrobin/ShreddedBlendsCLB.gif. They are all being cut by about 100 kcal/cup, soy is being added in the forms of soy flour and soybean meal, bag sizes are being shrunk to 35 lbs, and the price is increasing. IMHO, that is a significant change.

True, the other formulas aren't changing- FOR NOW. I, for one, am not waiting until Purina decides to change the whole line over to these new forumlations (Canidae is a perfect recent example. They claimed they were only changing their L & R formula, I believe it was, but then, low and behold, all the formulas followed suit- and it's all so they can get folks to buy their new "grain free" formula just like Purina's trying to "encourage" folks to make the Selects their premium line, deja vu anyone?). I'm switching now...

That's really scary. And what a shame... I'm disappointed if this is all true.

 

[susanb]

The addition of soy to PP is enough to convince me that this new formula is nothing that I want to feed. The only reason to add soy to the formula is to boost the protein content, which means that the meat content in the formula probably went down, since overall protein levels didn't increase. Dogs should eat a meat based food, not a corn and soy based food.

Too bad. I wonder how long before they mess up the Performance food.

 

[marion]

I have been feeding adult Chicken and rice Pro Plan (not performance) for years. I will have to change since one of my dogs has soft teeth so soft dog food is a very bad idea. What dog foods are comparable to PP adult chicken and rice? I will take the label from the bag this weekend when I go looking but maybe someone has advice who made a similar switch.

 

[frontier]

That's really scary. And what a shame... I'm disappointed if this is all true.

Me too..and they will probably charge more for it as well. Unfortunately, catering to most of the pet market.

I have fed the pro plan adult chicken/rice for years, but I will most certainly change to another brand.

 

[Fowl Play WA]

For all of us who have been feeding ProPlan, what do you suggest we switch to? Brad and I were talking about this last night and we feel that we need to switch. We were considering Performance, but I'm leary of them switching that soon too.

If we switch from a regular energy level dog food to a performance, will we be able to feed less? I'm in need of a little education here. We had the chocolate on a PPP at first but the trainer thought it might be causing his hot spot, but I think his hot spot was because of the heat being turned up during training because he's had absolutely no signs of any skin issues since.

I'm going to need to go get something now to start the transistion since I don't want to switch all at once.

 

[susanb]

BTW, I have heard that the "new" PP will come in smaller bags and the price is going to increase. Big surprise there.

For those who are looking for an alternative to PP - I have fed Eagle Pack Holistic Selects Chicken and Rice or Eagle Pack Holistic Selects Large and Giant Breed formulas with great success.

 

[Last Frontier Labs]

I have been feeding ProPlan Selects to my non-working dogs with good results. It's just expensive.

 

[lennie]

I have fed and recommended ProPlan Chicken and Rice for years also, I don't think I like this change either. I only feed Performance when the dogs are heavily hunted or to my bitch before and after whelping. Soft kibble is not good for the dogs teeth and a couple of my dogs have problems already.

In the past someone said that Sam's Exceed is the same as PP? Is that really true, is it made by Purina for Sams? Do you think that will change too? I just bought 3 bags of the old formula PP, it is on sale at Tractor Supply (in preparation for the change??).

I suppose it is too late to express our complaints at this point right?

 

[Guest]

To all concerned PP consumers,

I was asked to post a response by another RTF member on this topic. I am a research nutritionist at Purina and an avid Retreiver trainer and hunter. I have posted to provide some clarification and answer any questions regarding the new product release.

To confirm what has already been posted, ONLY 3 formulas will have the "shreds" kibble added to the pre-existing kibble (PP Adult maintenance Chicken, Beef, and Lamb. It is softer, but it is formulated with a specific ingredient to make this texture, and it is not water. The product formulas have not changed and these products continue to have the same nutritional profiles. As for those that were concerned that these products contain soy-based ingredients, this are added NOT to increase protein content, but to balance out the optimal amino acid ratio for proper protein building and maintenance. These soy ingredients are listed as #8, 9, or 10, which proves that they are not contributing very significantly to the total protein content. This is because the ingredients are listed in order of highest proportion to lowest proportion in the formula.

Okay, now for the reason behind the addition. The ProPlan brand wanted a palatability-driven innovation for the market segments that extensively use these products. There is no plan to incorporate this innovation into the Performance formula or other Proplan products.

We do extensive studies to ensure that our products are continually being improved. This product improvement demonstrated a HUGE increase in dog preference for palatability. So for all those that maintain their loyalty to the brand, PLEASE remember to feed your dog an amount that is based on keeping the dog at an ideal body condition. We all know that Labs like to eat, and with the increase in pal., always monitor how much they get and adjust accordingly. Ask your vet to assist you in determining this, if you are not familiar with assessing your dog's body condition. Alternatively, if there is enough interest, I would be happy to open a separate thread on this topic.

As a final thought to all of us having to deal with the increased cost of our dog food. This is just another example of our faltering economy. The entire petfood industry is really hurting, as with every other food-based industry, because of the rising cost of grains. I am sure that everyone reading this realizes that dogfood prices aren't the only food prices increasing. Some of the grains go into the dog food and most go to feed the cows, sheep, and chicken that provide the foundation of the formulas. Everyone has to make financial decisions regarding how to make ends meet, but when it comes to high quality dogfood, this is one example of "you get what you pay for".

I will stop here. I hope this was moderately helpful. I would be happy to follow up with any questions.
Brian Zanghi, Ph.D.
St. Louis

 

[Last Frontier Labs]

Dr. Zanghi,
You didn't address the whole issue we have with keeping the teeth clean. The shreds are soft and going to stick to the teeth. The group of folks here is very in tune with health care for the dogs and know the shreds will present dental issues down the road.
Can you comment?

 

[marion]

What about the dental issues? I don't think anyone on this board has fat dogs and not many have dogs that don't eat because they dislike the food. I am concerned about soft food causing dental problems which is why I will have to find a new food.

 

[Rick Hall]

Wonder if the bean counters behind the "palatability" smoke and mirrors will be changing Purina One's 26/16 chicken and rice, too? If not, it's a great alternative to the PP version, which is also more readily available to most.

 

[D Beard]

Brian,
Thanks for coming onto the message board to address the questions.
Hope you stick around and continue to provide great nutritional information to the retriever community via RTF.

 

[Guest]

As for the dental issues that everyone brings up, there was not adverse effects observed on the dogs that were tested with this food.

You have to take into consideration several factors with this criticism.
1.) the food is NOT a complete switch to a shred/softer kibble. It is about 25-30% of the total kibble, so the dog will still have dental protection from the harder kibble. Plus, the kibble is NOT a soft texture that will cause the kibble to "stick" to the dog's teeth.

2.) every dog is different with how much dental need is required to maintain healthy teeth. IF a dog is particularly prone to dental issues, then alternatives need to be considered, such as dental treats, brushing, or a dental food. I do not believe that changing a portion of the kibble will make a dog go from having no dental issues to a situation with unhealthy tartar build up, even in the long term.

As a kind response to Rick Hall, regardless of the food's nutritional content, if the dog didn't find the food palatable, you would be very unlikely to buy it again. I can't see why making a food taste more preferred by the dog is "smoke and mirrors". I don't think anyone is trying to replace any nutritional benefit with palatability, as the high nutritional quality is the same.

 

[Guest]

(snip)
As a kind response to Rick Hall, regardless of the food's nutritional content, if the dog didn't find the food palatable, you would be very unlikely to buy it again. I can't see why making a food taste more preferred by the dog is "smoke and mirrors". I don't think anyone is trying to replace any nutritional benefit with palatability, as the high nutritional quality is the same.

I have to agree with the "smoke and mirrors" thing only because I have never experienced a "palatability" issue with ANY dog of ANY breed (even though I primarily have retrievers, I do lots of rescue and boarding) having issues with the food. So how did they determine they needed to increase palatability?

For me, my initial perception was that they are trying to look like a grocery store brand food with a bunch of crap in it. Next we'll see little green peas, orange carrots, etc. etc. It's just kind of gross to me.

I just want a good, nutritional food. I don't need "shreds". No dog I have ever fed proplan appears to need "shreds"... I have never experienced, nor have I ever known anyone to experience palatability issues.

The reduced weight in the bag -- you ARE reducing it to 35# right? -- reminds me of when they went from 40 to 37.5. If the price needs to go up, just raise the price (this has already happened in recent months anyway). Don't go adding a bunch of *unnecessary* shredded uselessness and then pass the costs on to me, my dogs and my clients!

I am VERY thankful you are replying to this thread and I appreciate your time. Otherwise, I'd be swimming in a sea of websites trying to figure out what to do....

Respectfully,
Kristie

 

[Fowl Play WA]

Another concern is the protein source. It was mentioned earlier that some protein will be coming from Soy now, not just a meat source. Still pretty new at this, but I'm under the impression that the protein source should be meat.
Never mind, I re-read the post and found my answer.

 

[Guest]

Kristie,

Your point is well taken, but with regards to your question on palatability, you answered your own question. Nestle Purina is the largest dog food manufacturer in North America and obviously the Labrador Retriever breed is only one of many. One that typically does not have food consumption issues. Also, the Sporting segment customers are only one group of many segments of customers that the company must make products for. If you look at the big conformation shows, most (~80%) of the Champion dogs are on ProPlan. So we have wide array of consumers and breeds to support, as does every other company.

Your are the exactly the type of consumer that I am, a provider that is driven to buy food that is supported by science-based nutrition. So these "innovations" mean very little to you and other consumers that share your perspective on dogfood. However, there are millions of consumers that do not have that same pespective and purchase ProPlan and other Purina foods for other reasons. One being perception of palatability to the dog. Every company is looking to bring in new customers, and this time around it was based on palatability. But to reiterate again, it was not at the expense of nutritional quality.

To be honest, I don't think you will ever see "whole peas and the like" in a ProPlan product. You are welcome for the answers and I am glad that you are sharing your questions.

 

[meat hunter]

A lot of people have complained about Eukanuba raising prices but at least they are not changing sizes and formulas everyone has gone up. diamond green bag has gone from 22.00 to 29.00 this year around here. I sell dog food and every company has similar increases. I think I would rather see the increase than have the company try to out smart me by adding water & changing size. Ed

 

[Fowl Play WA]

Kristie,



One being perception of palatability to the dog. Every company is looking to bring in new customers, and this time around it was based on palatability. But to reiterate again, it was not at the expense of nutritional quality.

Call me crazy, but this does not seem like science, but marketing. I get that this is a business and marketing is huge, but to claim that it's based on science, then say here that its a PERCEPTION OF PALATABILITY makes me a little frustrated. Maybe I'm misreading or misunderstand and if I am, please straiten me out, but science and perception are two very different things.

J

 

[Fowl Play WA]

A lot of people have complained about Eukanuba raising prices but at least they are not changing sizes and formulas everyone has gone up. diamond green bag has gone from 22.00 to 29.00 this year around here. I sell dog food and every company has similar increases. I think I would rather see the increase than have the company try to out smart me by adding water & changing size. Ed

RIGHT ON! Prices go up, we get it, but changing the product AND raising prices is not necessary. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."