Just thought I would share a drill I learned from a retired FT pro. He starts dogs on this as soon as they know sit and here. This is done in a swim-by pond.
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Decheating Drill
bjoiner
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Hit the water without trying to run the bank. Basically it starts a young puppy to start focusing on coming strait to you to an obedience command. Eventually the pup will focus directly at you without looking to run around the pond. As you progress nearer and nearer the bank, the pup will continue to focus on you and the here command and not look to exit to the bank.
The fun bumper at the end rewards the pup for doing well and staying wet. If the dog looks at water as a good thing early in life, it won't be as big of an obsticle later in life. The pups that go through this tend to handle cheaty situations easier in later training.
The fun bumper at the end rewards the pup for doing well and staying wet. If the dog looks at water as a good thing early in life, it won't be as big of an obsticle later in life. The pups that go through this tend to handle cheaty situations easier in later training.
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looks like fun - I do a very similar type of drill with my pups and young dogs...
with older pups sometimes I use a helper to hold the dog and rope...once the dog is in the water they let go....If the dog tries to go around they pull the dog back and we try again...
Juli
with older pups sometimes I use a helper to hold the dog and rope...once the dog is in the water they let go....If the dog tries to go around they pull the dog back and we try again...
Juli
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How and what is done to PREVENT cheating? Are they onm a lead?
I understand trhe concept, but what do you do to/with a 3-4 month old pup to keep them in the water.
I know almost all of the dogs that I have trained will run that bank at the first opportunity. This is why I am so anal about them seeing non cheat type water marks until we do swim by.
Easier to prevent a habit than cure one.
MP
I understand trhe concept, but what do you do to/with a 3-4 month old pup to keep them in the water.
I know almost all of the dogs that I have trained will run that bank at the first opportunity. This is why I am so anal about them seeing non cheat type water marks until we do swim by.
Easier to prevent a habit than cure one.
MP
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yes- you use a floating long line...It works very well. All my pups have a basic understanding of this drill by 5 months or the end of their first summer, if they came to me in the winter.....it is a drill to set a foundation and if you work from the center of the pond to the end of the pond (widthwise) by the time they get to the end, they pretty much know to hit the water...Using a helper is ideal....I can get them slicing the end of the pond (within 3 feet) fairly easily....
nothing fancy or advanced is expected, like angle entries or exits, or long entries or exits...Everything is done at the edge of the water and square to the water....
Juli
nothing fancy or advanced is expected, like angle entries or exits, or long entries or exits...Everything is done at the edge of the water and square to the water....
Juli
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This is quite similar to the "swim to me" drill that Frank Plewa uses on his Amish NAHRA dogs...and he's trained some nice ones!
Chris
Chris
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I'm hoping for more clarity on this drill, so humor me, please.
- With what age group/level of development are you starting this drill?
- Do these dogs handle?
- Do they know Swim-by?
- Am I reading your diagrams correctly to indicate that the message to the dog is basically just "Get wet & stay wet"?
Evan
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Started around 4 months old or so.
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Evan - this is from my own exp
age - 3 months - 12 months (depends on water)
dogs do not handle
and do not know swimby
no collar corrections are given....if the pup tries to go around the shore, my helper restrains them with the rope...pulls them back and faces them toward the water..The helper doesn't talk or otherwise handle the dog...Meanwhile I am continuing to toot toot toot on the whistle..Sometimes the dog tries to go down the bank from the other direction...With attrition from the helper, the dog eventually gets in the water....They figure out on their own that they have to swim if they want to get to me...At that point I either give them a piece of hot dog or a happy bumper....I repeat from each location several times after the dog understands to come straight across and then move several yrds down the shoreline to repeat....
Juli
age - 3 months - 12 months (depends on water)
dogs do not handle
and do not know swimby
no collar corrections are given....if the pup tries to go around the shore, my helper restrains them with the rope...pulls them back and faces them toward the water..The helper doesn't talk or otherwise handle the dog...Meanwhile I am continuing to toot toot toot on the whistle..Sometimes the dog tries to go down the bank from the other direction...With attrition from the helper, the dog eventually gets in the water....They figure out on their own that they have to swim if they want to get to me...At that point I either give them a piece of hot dog or a happy bumper....I repeat from each location several times after the dog understands to come straight across and then move several yrds down the shoreline to repeat....
Juli
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- Around 4 months old.
- No they do not handle. They have a long check cord on them to guide them in the water if necessary. Figure #1 starts in the middle of the pond with the short swim to start with little temptation.
- No they do not know swim-by.
- Yes the message is to get wet and stay wet.
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Using a helper is obviously better. If you don't have a helper you just run the opposite direction the pup tries to cheat, bump the check cord in conjunction with a here command (verbal or whistle).
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It is fun!
..with small pups you can use 'small water' - like wide ditches or channels...the older or more experienced they get, you can go to bigger water, like a swim-by pond....It is fun because the dog teaches himself....When my son and I do it with the pups we alternate calling the dog, so that there is no walking around the shore....
you are right, it isn't so much a de-cheating drill as it is a drill to lay a good foundation for future de-cheating work.
Juli
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The puppy isn't teaching itself...It is fun!
When my son and I do it with the pups we alternate calling the dog, so that there is no walking around the shore....
you are right, it isn't so much a de-cheating drill as it is a drill to lay a good foundation for future de-cheating work.
Juli
You are putting the puppy in an environment where it can habituate a behavior. That behavior and environment is controlled by you...
Big difference...
Angie
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you are right the puppy isn't teaching himself...the pup is being encouraged to make the decision to get in the water....he realizes that he doesn't have any other way to go....like a puppy that negotiates an obstacle, if he wants to get over or around it, he will work until he figures out how.
Juli
Juli
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I understand the concept of imprinting. I have shallow creek areas that don't need ropes.....and there isn't anything but one choice. I don't throw cheaty marks until it's time to decheat. The pups all seemed to quickly grasp the "more water" concept after swim-by.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this approach, but if I didn't do this specific "early rope stuff" with any of my pups.......what have I missed?
This is my youngest....Gunny at 11 weeks old. He was swimming with ease and retrieved across the inlet of the Square Pond (no choices – over and back). Gunny is now 22 months old and going straight is not an issue.
”on target”
![Image]()
”Not the stick?”
![Image]()
”Is this better?”
![Image]()
”swimming retrieve”
![Image]()
”closeup”
![Image]()
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this approach, but if I didn't do this specific "early rope stuff" with any of my pups.......what have I missed?
This is my youngest....Gunny at 11 weeks old. He was swimming with ease and retrieved across the inlet of the Square Pond (no choices – over and back). Gunny is now 22 months old and going straight is not an issue.
”on target”
”Not the stick?”
”Is this better?”
”swimming retrieve”
”closeup”
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